Connections to HoL/OR

**heartbreak** · 09-15-2010, 07:28 AM

Pure speculation at this point but: pets a no no

**Johnny Truant** · 09-15-2010, 08:04 AM

I thought I'd remembered Zampano talking about some cats. I consulted Wikipedia and found this:

" of Leaves originally began as a short story, titled Redwood. "Redwood" is also referenced in relation to the cats who have started dying and disappearing: "Redwood. I saw him once a long time ago when I was young. I ran away and luckily, or no luck at all, he did not follow me. But now I cannot run and anyway this time I am certain he would follow" ( of Leaves 547). Zampanò's linking of the cats' disappearance with Redwood could be a connection to the disappearances that occurred in the house and the elusive being which seems to haunt the halls."

**kaseycarpenter** · 09-15-2010, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Truant

" of Leaves originally began as a short story, titled Redwood.

MZD states that this is not so. An outtake from our conversation (chuckpalahniuk[dot]net/interviews/authors/mark-danielewski) reads:

"REDWOOD never became HOUSE OF LEAVES."

But cats are running wild all over HoL, both domesticated, and Tigers:
chuckpalahniuk[dot]net/interviews/authors/mark-danielewski#ftn.19

**heartbreak** · 09-15-2010, 12:31 PM

Welcome to the forums Kasey. I just finished reading your interview. Great stuff!

Here's a link to Kasey's interview.

**kaseycarpenter** · 09-15-2010, 12:34 PM

Thanks!

I had a lot of fun chatting with MZD, so I decided to have some formatting the interview. Why read MZD through a typical narrative lens, right?

**heartbreak** · 09-15-2010, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by kaseycarpenter

Thanks!

I had a lot of fun chatting with MZD, so I decided to have some formatting the interview. Why read MZD through a typical narrative lens, right?

Why observe anything through typical lenses? There's always something you haven't noticed right before your eyes. Unnoticed somethings everywhere, much like tigers so I hear.

**Johnny Truant** · 09-15-2010, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by kaseycarpenter

MZD states that this is not so. An outtake from our conversation (chuckpalahniuk[dot]net/interviews/authors/mark-danielewski) reads:

"REDWOOD never became HOUSE OF LEAVES."

But cats are running wild all over HoL, both domesticated, and Tigers:
chuckpalahniuk[dot]net/interviews/authors/mark-danielewski#ftn.19

Kasey,

Thanks for sharing your review and outtakes.

Would you mind if I link to your review on the soon to be created "The Familiar" section on http://markzdanielewski.info?

**kaseycarpenter** · 09-15-2010, 02:14 PM

by all means

**po-m** · 09-15-2010, 11:09 PM

A kitty got squished by the walls, yes? Right around the time Daisy almost got squished? Daisy's a little girl (eh? eh? ehhh?). I'm sure there's plenty more, but that's all that sticks out right now.

Also, I'm going to put money down that this is going to be another scary one, with the combination of cats=familiars and the number 27 likely having significance. Fingers crossed!

**heartbreak** · 09-16-2010, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by po-m

A kitty got squished by the walls, yes? Right around the time Daisy almost got squished? Daisy's a little girl (eh? eh? ehhh?).

Tom's hands were squished by the walls. pg 345-346. Didn't find any mention of the cat.

**Distilled** · 09-17-2010, 05:39 AM

JT encounters a couple of cats in his travels, there is the one dead by the side of the road:

"On the side of route 636, I see a tabby, head completely gone, a smear of red. Probably killed by some stupid fucking I-Don't-Really-Know-How-To-Drive motorist. Nearby another cat, a great big gray thing, watches. Runs off when I approach." (pg499)

In fact, in the pages 491-521 I seem to remember the word cat itself popping up quite a lot. I'll have to take a proper look when I'm not sneaking sneaky sneaks at the book whilst my co-workers are away co-working. I'm sure I'd be a competant co-worker if I didn't sneak so many sneaks.

**CpVb006** · 09-19-2010, 07:08 PM

In the past, we've speculated (particularly you, heartbreak) that this third work (The Familiar) might represent the branches of Yggdrasil.

Admittedly, we don't know much at all yet about this book---and even having had ten years to think on

of Leaves hasn't 100% elucidated why it might be Yggdrasil's roots (yes yes ash tree and all that)---but maybe it's something worth thinking about.

We do know there will be a total of 27 "volumes" (though probably not 27 separate physical entities, assuming 1-5 will be contained in one tome). Perhaps each represents a branch?

**heartbreak** · 09-20-2010, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by CpVb006

In the past, we've speculated (particularly you, heartbreak) that this third work (The Familiar) might represent the branches of Yggdrasil.

Admittedly, we don't know much at all yet about this book---and even having had ten years to think on

of Leaves hasn't 100% elucidated why it might be Yggdrasil's roots (yes yes ash tree and all that)---but maybe it's something worth thinking about.

We do know there will be a total of 27 "volumes" (though probably not 27 separate physical entities, assuming 1-5 will be contained in one tome). Perhaps each represents a branch?

Large or small, cats do like to sit in the branches. Good idea CpVb006.

**CpVb006** · 09-20-2010, 07:51 AM

Also I hope I didn't imply that 27 has any special significance to the branches of Yggdrasil, since I haven't found anything like that. To illustrate the theory book by physical book:

of Leaves - the roots. as a physical object, it's huge, thick and study.

- the trunk. it's a skinny book, much taller than it is wide.

The Familiar - the branches, where things begin fanning out in all directions. again, going on what we know/can assume, there's potentially 27 distinct physical entities.

edit: also, weird how the auto-markup for OR works but not HoL : [

**technocookie** · 09-20-2010, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Distilled

JT encounters a couple of cats in his travels, there is the one dead by the side of the road:

"On the side of route 636, I see a tabby, head completely gone, a smear of red. Probably killed by some stupid fucking I-Don't-Really-Know-How-To-Drive motorist. Nearby another cat, a great big gray thing, watches. Runs off when I approach." (pg499)

In fact, in the pages 491-521 I seem to remember the word cat itself popping up quite a lot.

This passage from HoL immediately came to my mind, too. When Danielewski was doing his tour for the paperback release of OR, he read the end of OR (Hailey's?) and this at a little book store in DC (Olson's? Oct 3, 2007). Perhaps he already had this project on his mind then. Either way, I remember his pointing it out and saying some things about it.
I wish I could remember his comments on this section. Was anyone there and recall, or does anyone have access to a recording? It could be that he read this part of the book throughout that tour.

**ThereIsNoDarkSky** · 09-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by CpVb006

Also I hope I didn't imply that 27 has any special significance to the branches of Yggdrasil, since I haven't found anything like that. To illustrate the theory book by physical book:

of Leaves - the roots. as a physical object, it's huge, thick and study.

Only Revolutions - the trunk. it's a skinny book, much taller than it is wide.

The Familiar - the branches, where things begin fanning out in all directions. again, going on what we know/can assume, there's potentially 27 distinct physical entities.

edit: also, weird how the auto-markup for OR works but not HoL : [

The Fifty Year Sword is MUCH taller than it is wide.

, on the other hand, is circular, like a tree's trunk and life. OR would probably be a tree's cycle than it would be it's shape.

If The Familiar is the branches, will there be fateful or destined fruit?
Now, quickly, in my mind, I imagine this to be MZD's Dark Tower.
(That might have been a little out of line.)

**g@rp** · 09-23-2010, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Typhonae

Tigers everywhere, I'm guessing there will be a lot of tigers in The Familiar? Or large cats?

Who knows.

I'm almost sure that I've read "Tigers everywhere" somewhere, but not in H.O.L nor in T50YS.
Maybe in the historical sidebar of

. . . ?
I've had a quick look but can't find where.

Maybe just my imagination . . . ?

**Ellimist** · 09-23-2010, 11:40 AM

Tigers, tigers everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

"Way I remember it, albatross was a ship's good luck, 'til some idiot killed it. Yes, I've read a poem. Try not to faint."

**salamander18** · 10-30-2010, 07:53 AM

"And clowders of cats"
Hailey 357

**Codename:Odessa** · 01-08-2011, 02:03 PM

It's only been 3 years and some odd months, but I'm back, wiser and just a little worse for wear. At least for now; we shall see.

To qoute from po-m: Also, I'm going to put money down that this is going to be another scary one, with the combination of cats=familiars and the number 27 likely having significance. Fingers crossed!

Another scary one?!?! LOL, one thing I like about the wiZards work is that it's always scary, yet not the way most would expect, and sometimes it's suttle enough one can pass over it without realizing the deeper implications.

What I like about his works is the feeling they leave you with when you're done wtih them (they're done with you). That slightly disoriented uneasy secretly violated feeling. Things that make you go "Uhhhhhhh. . ."

With the cat being a "familiar," I myself am curious what kind of magical and/or occult references there will be, and how far he will stretch them.

Also, his books cannot be disqualified as love stories, and I wonder how much of that we'll see in the story.

Food for thought, or thoughts of food.

**Codename:Odessa** · 01-08-2011, 02:04 PM

It's only been 3 years and some odd months, but I'm back, wiser and just a little worse for wear. At least for now; we shall see.

To qoute from po-m: Also, I'm going to put money down that this is going to be another scary one, with the combination of cats=familiars and the number 27 likely having significance. Fingers crossed!

Another scary one?!?! LOL, one thing I like about the wiZards work is that it's always scary, yet not the way most would expect, and sometimes it's suttle enough one can pass over it without realizing the deeper implications.

What I like about his works is the feeling they leave you with when you're done wtih them (they're done with you). That slightly disoriented uneasy secretly violated feeling. Things that make you go "Uhhhhhhh. . ."

With the cat being a "familiar," I myself am curious what kind of magical and/or occult references there will be, and how far he will stretch them.

Also, his books cannot be disqualified as love stories, and I wonder how much of that we'll see in the story.

Food for thought, or thoughts of food.

**kaseycarpenter** · 01-09-2011, 12:07 PM

Life is scary, so I imagine this one will be as well. Probably not as dialed up as HoL - but scary in that it will deal with loss, which, if you want to boil it down, is the ultimate genesis of all fear. So if loss = scary, then I'd say, yes, it will be scary...

...and I agree with the subtle aspect - he drinks hitchcockian cocktails moreso than say, Brett Easton Ellis - or anyone else who traffics in graphics. (thank you, thank you)

This one, in what I envision it as, with what little data I have (think the fable of stone soup here) seems to me to be heading down a darker path, more in line with HoL, but this one will have way more love than OR. I'm thinking the best of both worlds. Remember the man basically lost one of the most important ani-mals (beings) in his life. This from a man who has endured some rather unique losses in his life. So there is that for the engine of the story. And as you may or may not recall, in his interview he mentioned love and wanting said love/companionship - which to me would be the fuel of the story.

I find it easy, if not abbreviated, to write 27 volumes on loss and love.

But, at this point, it is all conjecture and wishful thinking on our/my part.

**Magda** · 01-10-2011, 09:29 AM

Novem ovum nine all mine:

**po-m** · 01-13-2011, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Truant

I thought I'd remembered Zampano talking about some cats.

It's far too late and I wish I had my book with me, but there were lots of cats that ran through the tall grass outside Zampano's apartment building; they all disappeared after he died. $10USD to whomever can find actual evidence.

**Ellimist** · 01-13-2011, 08:43 PM

As Lude told it, Zampano had lived in the building for many years, and though he mostly kept to himself, he never failed to appear every morning and evening to walk around the courtyard, a wild place with knee high weeds and back then populated with over eighty stray cats. Apparently the cats liked the old man alot and though he offered no enticements, they would constantly rub up against his legs before darting back into the center of that dusty place.

...

"The first peculiar thing," Lude told me, leading the way around a short flight of stairs. "Were the cats." Apparently in the months preceding the old man's death, the cats had begun to disappear. By the time he died they were all gone. "I saw one with its head ripped off and another with its guts strewn all over the sidewalk. Mostly though, they just vanished."

That?

**Magda** · 01-14-2011, 12:34 AM

Page 66.

**Ellimist** · 01-14-2011, 05:00 PM

No.

**po-m** · 01-14-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ellimist

That?

Yup. Thanks. Although I reserve the right to substitute the aforementioned buckage with a wink and a smile.

**Magda** · 01-15-2011, 01:49 AM

99?

**Splendorr** · 01-16-2011, 06:10 PM

Struck me this morning that the aphoristic tone of the #TF1-5 quotes on Twitter sound similar to the voice on

of Leaves, page 45:

Rose's pronouncement recalls another equally important meditation:

Why did god create a dual universe?

So he might say,
"Be not like me. I am alone."

And it might be heard.⁵⁷

There is not time or room to adequately address the complexity inherent in this passage ...

⁵⁷These lines have a familiar ring though I've no clue why or where I've heard them before.⁵⁸
⁵⁸Though we were ultimately unsuccessful, all efforts were made to determine who wrote the above verse. We apologize for this inconsistency. Anyone who can provide legitimate proof of authorship will be credited in future editions. — Ed.

"Familiar ring?" A promise to provide attribution, if confirmed, in future editions? The attention drawn to the absence of a proper citation in this world of liberal (and mostly invented) citation? Not "time or room" to address it... inside HoL?

What do you want to bet this attribution is made in the next edition of of Leaves, and that we'll learn more about its "author" before much longer?