Incest

[Nash]

This whole forum.

and the whole book !

[katatonic]

Indeed.

[Apung]

Indeed.

Point taken.

[murasamune]

I'd not considered that option. As I've said elsewhere, Pelafina implores Johnny to save her 'in the name of [his] father', which has a definite religious ring to it.

Remember, Joseph wasn't Jesus' father, he was just his mother's husband. (Man, I'll try and say something new at some point, I promise).

have you considered Zampano as johnny's father? as the joseph to his jesus?

[katatonic]

Welcome.
Though it hasn't been specifically mentioned in this thread, references to Zampano as Johnny's father litter these boards. Try reading around some more.

[poco locomotive]

... as the joseph to his jesus?

yes, that is definitely a possibility and I like the richness of the allusion.

[murasamune]

Welcome.
Though it hasn't been specifically mentioned in this thread, references to Zampano as Johnny's father litter these boards. Try reading around some more.

ah, well then i retract my "have you considered" and request that it be discussed further.

[murasamune]

yes, that is definitely a possibility and I like the richness of the allusion.

entirely not my idea(obviously more MZD's than anyones) but one i've adopted. i wish this thread wasnt dead.

ED: or that i had something more interesting to add to it. to awaken it

[fearful_syzygy]

ah, well then i retract my "have you considered" and request that it be discussed further.

Discuss away.

[murasamune]

alas, my book is at home and i am at work. and im picking up OR tomorrow so i wont have time, i was hoping this wasn't a dead topic and that i could syphon a bit more insight off some more people. i'll bring what i have to the table when i find it

[murasamune]

i'm sorry. i just fell into OR. it'll be a long fall. with no impact. i'll get back to this someday. just not soon. i'm o

[murasamune]

i'm sorry. i just fell into OR. it'll be a long fall. with no impact. i'll get back to this someday. just not soon.

[JuggaloStatix]

J=Jesus
Mary=Mother Mary
(The way I always pictured it, at least)

I was trying to read through the post and got side tracked by this one reply, if that's the way you look at it, I think that would enforce the Johnny is a product of rape, because it would mean that he was born of someone other than his father, some people acctually call the husband father, if there was no true father in the childs life. Just know from calling my step mom, my mom because I never knew my birthmother

[Admiral_Shanks]

So, this thread deals with some good questions...but the only thing I have to add tp this is...

....being a mom to a boy, I'd know.

You're a GIRL?! I always assumed you were a guy! No offence like...

I am genuinely surprised (I think it's just the user name.)

That is all :)

[fearful_syzygy]

You've outdone yourself this time, Pugwash.

[katatonic]

Hi after a million years (okay, slight exaggeration, though it doesn't feel like it)... To answer that six-year-old disbelief at my generalization, I was saying that I didn't believe P had sexually abused Johnny. My opinion may change by the time I get done with this reread. Just browsing TWL board because I don't actually own that book and I'm filling in some blanks in the Appendices for myself.

As of yet, have still not found a reference to Donnie as Pelafina's husband.

[1two3]

So, following the theory that Johnny is a product of rape....Maybe his mother was trying to kill him so he wouldn't have to live life knowing what he was. Perhaps the intimate ramblings she shared with him in her letters were her way of giving him a love that no other woman could give Johnny.

Of course, I could be wrong. It's 3:30am at the moment so my mind is in a bit of a daze.

[angrychalupa]

re: Johnny's possibly being molested...he pretty much openly said he was raped by one of his adoptive fathers, when he got into trouble for fighting or something. The father beat him a bunch and Johnny didn't say exactly that he was raped, but he said something pretty much metaphorical for it. Wish I had the book with me so I could try to quote it....