Snowfall

[marsjams13]

The desire was too much, like trompsing through a field blanketed in freshly fallen snow just to make footprints.

What a waste - the absence of posts was so nice.

[katatonic]

You ass.

Oh hell, I did it too.

[fearful_syzygy]

Why didn't anyone tell me there was an S&M version of HoL coming out?!

[sutrix]

Apart from MZD's insistence on releasing the book in many languages, I still don't see the point of having so many versions of the book.

I don't even know what language this is.

[katatonic]

I don't even know what language this is.

And you are the center of the universe?

What's it to you, anyway?

[fearful_syzygy]

1. What the hell does that mean? The point is that people who's native language is not English can read the book. What is the point of translating any book?

2. It's Serbo-croat, by the looks of it. That's what they speak in the former Yugoslavia.

[sutrix]

the center of the universe?

That's America.

[sutrix]

1. What the hell does that mean? The point is that people who's native language is not English can read the book. What is the point of translating any book?

I'm not ranting, if that's how it sounds.

It's quite the opposite: is MZD's intention to introduce as many possible inconsistencies through as many different publishing avenues possible? Are there enough readers to even bother translating into a language? Judging from the various language forums right here (apart from the French), translated versions aren't doing so hot. So what's the point?

[fearful_syzygy]

You're right.

HEY YOU FOREIGN TYPES! STOP SPEAKING YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGES! ONLY ENGLISH FROM NOW ON, OK?

[sutrix]

You're right.

HEY YOU FOREIGN TYPES! STOP SPEAKING YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGES! ONLY ENGLISH FROM NOW ON, OK?

My point is not that there should not be translated versions. My point is that with this particular book, considering the many different editions of the English version itself, it can't just be a simple case of translating in order to let the natives read in their preferred language--it has to be something else. And judging by the activity at the forums, it's not working.

Happy 3000^th!

[fearful_syzygy]

Happy 3000^th!

Crap, now look what you've done.

What a waste. :(

[katatonic]

the center of the universe?

That's America.

If you say so.


Happy 3000, f_s!!

[fearful_syzygy]

Thank you, my dear.


As for translations, I still don't see what the problem is. Yes, I agree it must be a Sysiphian task to translate the book, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. I can only imagine that MZD wants his book translated into as many languages as possible, not just so they can put it in the blurb for , but also because the dissemination and distortion of this material is part of what the book is about. Personally, I suspect that the reason MZD offers translators no help whatsoever is that he's hoping any foreign-language version will be riddled with Translator's notes, adding a new layer of mediation and (mis)interpretation. Now, objectively we may we may lament non-native speakers' inability to read the 'official' text, but what are you going to do? Try seeing HoL as a text that gains in translation, to use David Damrosch's term.

[marsjams13]

And judging by the activity at the forums, it's not working.

Happy 3000th!

Ditto, f_s you are 6 times the poster i am.

Sutrix, in my mind, the lack of activity on most of the foriegn forums does not necessarily equate to lack of interest for HoL in foriegn markets.

[sutrix]

but also because the dissemination and distortion of this material is part of what the book is about. Personally, I suspect that the reason MZD offers translators no help whatsoever is that he's hoping any foreign-language version will be riddled with Translator's notes, adding a new layer of mediation and (mis)interpretation.

Yes, but we're certainly not getting any (well, not a lot, in any case) foreign language members to point out the differences, are we? That is what my point is. Translating in a native language is good, I repeat, but if MZD's intention is to further broaden the scope of the book by introducing all sorts of inconsistencies which may or may not further/clear the various aspects and puzzles of the book, then so far it has been something of a lost cause.

Yes, I agree it must be a Sysiphian task to translate the book, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

As I said, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be attempted, either. I just don't see the point in MZD pushing the translations so hard... well, fuck it: what I'm really bitching about is that MZD should hurry up with and then he can translate both books in Simspeech or Vortigauntspeech for all I care. I'm just a patienceless bugger; is that so wrong?

Ditto, f_s you are 6 times the poster i am.

You failed Elementary Math, didn't you?

Sutrix, in my mind, the lack of activity on most of the foriegn forums does not necessarily equate to lack of interest for HoL in foriegn markets.

Why not? Are you saying that people read the book, but then either don't post on the forum and keep visiting as guests or simply don't bother with the forum at all? I can't think of anyone who'd read the book and not want to explore more.

[marsjams13]

You failed Elementary Math, didn't you?

i knew someone would not be able to let that go. i didn't need math for my english degree

Sutrix, in my mind, the lack of activity on most of the foriegn forums does not necessarily equate to lack of interest for HoL in foriegn markets.

Why not? Are you saying that people read the book, but then either don't post on the forum and keep visiting as guests or simply don't bother with the forum at all? I can't think of anyone who'd read the book and not want to explore more.

i immediately logged on after finishing the book and can't imagine not wanting to at least check it out. So that accounts for some of the guests and some people that never post.

But how many books does it take to be a best seller? There's just over 7000 registered users, but i'm sure more book sales than that are required for bestseller status, right? I'm sure more people read the book and never come here than you think.

Now i don't know what some other countries are like, but i think it is plausible that some foriegn markets don't have as much internet usage (or as many people who both read a translated HoL and frequent the internet on a regular basis).

Who knows, maybe the translated versions aren't having much sucess, but i'm just not convinced of that by foriegn forum usage alone.

[sutrix]

i knew someone would not be able to let that go. i didn't need math for my english degree

Were those grammatical mistakes intentional as well? (Ah, stop it, sutrix.)

Now i don't know what some other countries are like, but i think it is plausible that some foriegn markets don't have as much internet usage (or as many people who both read a translated HoL and frequent the internet on a regular basis).

I don't know much about any of the members here, but I think the internet is the primary medium through which this book gained most of its readers. As in, someone found about it on the internet; or someone found about it from someone who found out about it on the internet.

And I think that is especially true in case of foreign readers. They (I'm of course speaking about myself) don't exactly have avenues like Barnes and Nobles to browse every other Friday.

If you want to know about the Indian subcontinent (Singapore, Pakistan etc), then translated versions are (as far as I know) unheard of.

Who knows, maybe the translated versions aren't having much sucess, but i'm just not convinced of that by foriegn forum usage alone.

Yeah, but then you'd at least expect someone hurrying over to ask if anyone has the full color edition, right? Or, you know, why is house in blue? Who wrote Navidson Report? Yggdrasil is a tree! And so on.

[marsjams13]

Were those grammatical mistakes intentional as well? (Ah, stop it, sutrix.)

Any grammatical mistakes you see in any of my posts are, of course, intentional.

I don't know much about any of the members here, but I think the internet is the primary medium through which this book gained most of its readers. As in, someone found about it on the internet; or someone found about it from someone who found out about it on the internet.

And I think that is especially true in case of foreign readers. They (I'm of course speaking about myself) don't exactly have avenues like Barnes and Nobles to browse every other Friday.

Early on the primary medium was the internet, no doubt. However, i've read many posts about people just walking by HoL in a bookstore and noticing it, or having it recommended to them. i first heard about it in a magazine review.
i know very little about foriegn markets, so i couldn't say, but it seems to me if any of these countries have bookstores that stock their respective translated versions, exposure may not be limited to the internet savvy.

Yeah, but then you'd at least expect someone hurrying over to ask if anyone has the full color edition, right? Or, you know, why is in blue? Who wrote Navidson Report? Yggdrasil is a tree! And so on.

Patience, grasshopper.

[fearful_syzygy]

I'm just a patienceless bugger; is that so wrong?

There's no such word, so yes, it's pretty wrong.

So the book is more popular in the English-speaking world. So what? So is the Internet.

I suspect that the majority of foreign readers aren't necessarily finding out about HoL on the 'net, and so there's no reason to assume they would automatically log on if and when they do read it.

Just because you don't know about all the inconsistencies between the translations doesn't mean there aren't any or that you should.

Now sit back, relax, take it easy. You managed fine for a thousand posts or so without even a copy of HoL; I think you can wait a while longer for .

[sutrix]

I'm just a patienceless bugger; is that so wrong?

There's no such word, so yes, it's pretty wrong.

Yeah, but impatient bugger just don' have dat ring, mon.

I think you can wait a while longer for .

Meanwhile, the hunt for the elusive online edition intensifies.

[katatonic]

Why not? Are you saying that people read the book, but then either don't post on the forum and keep visiting as guests or simply don't bother with the forum at all? I can't think of anyone who'd read the book and not want to explore more.

There are plenty of people who don't come on this site, who have read HoL. I know a few, personally. Also, if you log on to MySpace, there is another board there, which is really primative, about HoL. Those people may never have thought to look somewhere else for a discussion. Or they came here and were scared off by some people who shall remain nameless.

Also on MySpace is a profile for MZD (though some people here doubt that it's really him), which has 183 friends at the time of this post. I would wager that at the very least 150 of them have read the book. And there are how many from this board? Only 3 that I know of for sure.

Another point I should make is that not everyone liked HoL. There are a lot of people who were really disappointed by the lack of a tidy ending, or who were frustrated with the layout and language. Those people wouldn't go looking for a place to discuss something they found boring or difficult.

So, you see sutrix, your generalizations are, as usual, quite flawed.

[fatwoul]

...Or they came here and were scared off by some people who shall remain nameless...

:(

[katatonic]

...Or they came here and were scared off by some people who shall remain nameless...

:(

I said some people. That means more than one person, eh?
Maybe I meant axl and poco and BM3K...
Don't be sad.

[poco locomotive]

I said some people.
Maybe I meant axl and poco and BM3K...

:-(



at least i got listed in the "people" category...

[katatonic]

at least i got listed in the "people" category...

My mistake.

[poco locomotive]

LOL LOL LOL LOL!

[katatonic]

You effing moron. :banghead:

*ignore list*

[elmago]

Actually, I think there could be a good serbo-croat market for the book. If anything, contemporary serbo-croat literature is the thing that most resembles HoL I've read. You should check out the works of Milorad Pavic and Goran Petrovic, the latter one, I fear, hasn't been transalted into english, but easily available is Spanish and French.

If any speakers of the language would find the way to the forum, they could provide very unique and insightfull readings of HoL.

[Nikerym]

If any speakers of the language would find the way to the forum, they could provide very unique and insightfull readings of HoL.

And being one of them, I must heartily agree.

I came across this Web forum by accident and was surprised to find the section for Serbia and Montenegro. I am not sure about the popularity of HoL on Serbian market, and I have only met two persons who have read the book.

As for Markovic and Pavic, they are in my opinion two excellent contemporary Serbian writers. I slightly prefer Markovic over Pavic at the moment, as Pavic seems to be getting repetitive with time.

I will save my two cents on HoL for some other time.

[Davinche]

dum dum dummmmm...