House of Leaves movie is casting now...

**x_debaser** · 12-06-2008, 01:37 PM

I see your point, and I must say I agree. It would not be the same. However, given the fact that MZD will never release the rights, I don't think we'll have to worry about that anytime soon.

I'm (obviously) not an English major, and as far as the book goes, I'm not nearly as intelligible on it as most of the people here. I do know about film though. and to say the least, When you adapt a book into a film, it becomes an original screenplay in the sense that it is only based on the story and characters found in the book.

Yes, it would anger very many people who are fans of the book, but in a dramatic sense, you can certainly make a descent film out of it. It wouldn't be the same as the book by any means, but it would be a good movie.

In fact I realize that it would never happen, this is really just an exercise for me in adaptation. Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I'm doing it just to a)see if I can make it work. and b) practice screenwriting, probably admire it, post it on some blog, then shelve it and move on.

But anyways, my sig. probably has to do with the same thing that guy's name does. It's from a song by Circa Survive on Juturna called (go figure) house of leaves. the entire album was inspired in part by the book and also by the film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. In the song, towards the middle the lyrics are reversed (like the crazy typography of the book) and mixed brilliantly so it gives an eerie jumbled/ building tone to the song before the ending. Here's some of the lyrics:

(second verse)
Haunting us, these
Defferent meanings and
Spectral beings...
We're fighting sleep with
Broken, rusted weaponry

Sing so softly and low like
You want me to hear
Stolen what you can't afford
What's that muffled Beating for...
(reverb/echo:...eating for...)

(Chorus)
I've been Lying
Wide awake terrorized
By the buzzing of the television
These modern things we know, (getting you off)
These modern things we know...

Here's the only link i could find: go to myspace and search for circa survive hidden track

Click on "Hidden Track Circa Survive"

**Ellimist** · 12-06-2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by yltfososkaeps

descent film

Pun intended?

**heartbreak** · 12-06-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by x_debaser

I see your point, and I must say I agree. It would not be the same. However, given the fact that MZD will never release the rights, I don't think we'll have to worry about that anytime soon.

I'm (obviously) not an English major, and as far as the book goes, I'm not nearly as intelligible on it as most of the people here. I do know about film though. and to say the least, When you adapt a book into a film, it becomes an original screenplay in the sense that it is only based on the story and characters found in the book.

Yes, it would anger very many people who are fans of the book, but in a dramatic sense, you can certainly make a descent film out of it. It wouldn't be the same as the book by any means, but it would be a good movie.

In fact I realize that it would never happen, this is really just an exercise for me in adaptation. Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I'm doing it just to a)see if I can make it work. and b) practice screenwriting, probably admire it, post it on some blog, then shelve it and move on.

Not sure what English majors have to do with this discussion but moving on...

The thing is, you are not adapting the book, you are adapting only part of the book. Stripping away everything that the part of the book represents and turning it into something that has been done before. Nothing new.

Why would you want to do that? Even as an exercise?

**fearful_syzygy** · 12-06-2008, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by heartbreak

Why would you want to do that? Even as an exercise?

Well, for the same reason that great artists start off copying the great masters before they go off and spend the rest of their career trying to break all the rules they've just learnt. Imitatio is (or, perhaps, was) a foundational principle of all artistic production.

So, fine: making a screenplay based on The Navidson Record is useful as an exercise in screenwriting, no matter how conventional the end result may turn out to be. As you say, you don't have to worry about it ever becoming a real film anyway, so there's no reason to waste time and effort on coming up with something blindingly original on this project. I hear you.

Nevertheless, by now, meta-adaptations of books aren't exactly groundbreaking either, and it might be worthwhile trying to see how far you get coming up with a screenplay like that for HoL. Or, as an exercise in restraint, just how much of HoL you can fit into 120 mins (or, nowadays I suppose more like 140).

Knock yourself out.

Thanks for the info on Circa Survive. I'll check them out in due course.

**x_debaser** · 12-06-2008, 09:12 PM

They are definitely worthwhile. and I'm glad someone could finally offer anything but criticism.

On that note I'd simply like to point out that yes, it's been done, but those video's are just home projects. nothing substantial.

**heartbreak** · 12-07-2008, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by x_debaser

They are definitely worthwhile. and I'm glad someone could finally offer anything but criticism.

You're completely right. Over the course of ten whole posts you've been nothing but criticized.

Originally Posted by x_debaser

Anyone care to comment?

Oh wait... you asked if anyone cared to comment and that's what you got. Fuck off man.

**x_debaser** · 12-07-2008, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by fearful_syzygy

Stripping it down to just The Navidson Record would also strip it of everything that makes it of Leaves. The only interesting aspect of TNR is that it's ostensibly real. Clearly your film wouldn't have that.

That in my opinion would be the reason that

of Leaves and The Navidson record could not exist in the same film. In Johnny Truants story, TNR doesnt appear to exist, yet he finds more and more evidence that seems to testify to it's existence, as do we find similar evidence (p. 708).

Of course, for what I'm writing I see that the point is that it must appear real, which is why I believe "What some have thought" is an important inclusion. It brings the story into our realm. It's not nearly as much as the stuff we find in the book, but I think that just the implication of its authenticity would be enough to make the audience question.

As for the previous comment, don't you think that the amount of hostility on this forum to new members might be the reason that theres usually no more than a dozen or so people active?

**heartbreak** · 12-07-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by x_debaser

As for the previous comment, don't you think that the amount of hostility on this forum to new members might be the reason that theres usually no more than a dozen or so people active?

This is completely irrelevant. My reason for being hostile towards you has nothing to do with you being a new member. It has everything to do with you asking for comments and then bitching about the type of comments you receive, which were nothing more then constructive conversation, that you see only as criticism.

So here's the deal, you said, "finally.." like you had been discussing script writing for some ungodly length of time and only received criticism. Seeing that you only have a grand total of 11 posts, you've hardly been talking about it that long on here. Lighten up.

Second, as to the mistreatment of new members, since you bring it up, feel free to provide proof of a large amount of unwarranted mistreatment of new members. Just like many other people that have tried making that claim I bet you can't.

**x_debaser** · 12-07-2008, 06:57 PM

Okay I'll admit I've been unreasonable here. I've been going through a lot lately and I haven't responded well to anything critical for personal reasons.

after re-reading the thread I'd like to apologize. I'm under a lot of stress right now.

Yes, I am not an expert here or anywhere for that matter, but I do know a thing or two about music, film, and writing. that's it really. as far as my personal reasons go, I don't think anyone should have to deal with this much court. It's ridiculous. long story short, I had a run in with "Gdansk Man", (apparently one of his friends too?), and I'm against fighting.

**sutrix** · 12-07-2008, 09:52 PM

You've been here for 16 posts now. We are strangers. We don't know you. We don't give a fuck about your personal problems.

At least I don't.

I know this sounds rude, but it needs to be said.

**x_debaser** · 12-08-2008, 11:54 AM

yeah I gotcha.

**On a Map of Swirling Cord** · 12-21-2008, 06:55 PM

debaser. It's not you. The fact is there are some people here so rude that, if I were MZD, I would be embarrassed and disconcerted. Don't let the horrid attitudes get you down, though. Your comments and observations are important to some of us (and maybe helpful for those who logon down the line). Why we are taunted to find similar cases of people being turned off to the forum is a pschological tactic at best. I feel certain that we are not the only ones who feel this way. Just note the odd poster who pops in to make a remark but does not stick around long enough to get embroiled in the immature aggression seen time and time again in folks like Ellimist. One of my first posts was returned with "and now my least favorite new member". Typical from that dude.

It's funny (in a lame way) that Heartbreak can try to say there is ever a reason to be hostile with someone. The earmark of his and other 'veteran' posters' disability and awkward way of acting entitled.

What's worse is that they usually have nothing at all to say about the book or any perspectives (at least in the last 3 months).

**Ellimist** · 12-21-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by On a Map of Swirling Cord

The fact is there are some people here so rude that, if I were MZD, I would be embarrassed and disconcerted.

Apparently you have not noticed that this is an open forum - free membership with no moderation. There is completely free speech here. If MZD and nikhsub1 wanted to micromanage us and censor our conversations, they could have. This is not a daycare center - it is time to grow up - this is the internet. If someone is rude to you, the only options are to ignore it or reply. I thought with your minor in English you would have seen plenty of heated discussions, including ones that start out literary but devolve. No? Maybe you missed things there, too.

Originally Posted by On a Map of Swirling Cord

What's worse is that they usually have nothing at all to say about the book or any perspectives (at least in the last 3 months).

Of course you would think that - you don't actually read the threads you post in. How would you know what we wrote?

Originally Posted by On a Map of Swirling Cord

debaser. It's not you.

Q.E.D. ...did not read the thread.

Noticing a pattern? (no, you probably haven't.) Everyone else see it? Awesome.

**Rryssa** · 12-22-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by On a Map of Swirling Cord

if I were MZD, I would be embarrassed and disconcerted.

You really should proofread your posts, because what you're ( hopefully unintentionally ) implying here is severely discourteous.

**heartbreak** · 12-23-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by On a Map of Swirling Cord

debaser. It's not you. The fact is there are some people here so rude that, if I were MZD, I would be embarrassed and disconcerted. Don't let the horrid attitudes get you down, though. Your comments and observations are important to some of us (and maybe helpful for those who logon down the line). Why we are taunted to find similar cases of people being turned off to the forum is a pschological tactic at best. I feel certain that we are not the only ones who feel this way. Just note the odd poster who pops in to make a remark but does not stick around long enough to get embroiled in the immature aggression seen time and time again in folks like Ellimist. One of my first posts was returned with "and now my least favorite new member". Typical from that dude.

It's funny (in a lame way) that Heartbreak can try to say there is ever a reason to be hostile with someone. The earmark of his and other 'veteran' posters' disability and awkward way of acting entitled.

What's worse is that they usually have nothing at all to say about the book or any perspectives (at least in the last 3 months).

I have every right to be hostile towards someone who asks for comments and opinions, gets what they ask for, and then complains about it. I find it offensive. Very rarely have I been hostile when offended on these boards. At least to my knowledge. I could be wrong.

You claim it is a psychological tactic to ask you to show proof of what you claim. You really should get your facts straight before you go making declarations of people's behavior on these forums.

In the last three months I have posted 219 times in the

of Leaves forum. 95 of those posts were discussing things related to

of Leaves. (Edit: Posts where I defend the methodology used to arrive at conclusions were omitted because they aren't directly related to

**noevilstar** · 02-19-2010, 09:27 PM

My staticky imagination of Johnny Truant resembles this flaming olympian ... minus the skates and ridiculous costume... jesus pose optional

**ThereIsNoDarkSky** · 02-24-2010, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by noevilstar

My staticky imagination of Johnny Truant resembles this flaming olympian ... minus the skates and ridiculous costume... jesus pose optional

Oh, Johnny Weir!

Awkward though. I think the same thing.

**reldra** · 05-28-2011, 12:03 PM

I understand it would be difficult to make a movie out of this. I have seen several of my favorite books adapted horribly for the screen, but some adapted wonderfully. The horrible ones did not ruin the book, as the book stands alone. Even for the bad ones, it was nice to see the characters in a place other than my own mind. It is a shame there is no movie.

**reldra** · 05-28-2011, 12:05 PM

OMG, That is very close to how I see his face.

**Obsesso** · 08-23-2011, 09:59 AM

The only way to make a HoL movie would be for it to be a movie about someone making a HoL movie or making a making-of documentary on someone making a HoL movie. Blasphemous to the spirit of the novel, perhaps, but I think we can all agree that a "straight" adaptation would be so much worse.

**WeThreeKings** · 09-18-2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by x_debaser

I see your point, and I must say I agree. It would not be the same. However, given the fact that MZD will never release the rights, I don't think we'll have to worry about that anytime soon.

I'm (obviously) not an English major, and as far as the book goes, I'm not nearly as intelligible on it as most of the people here. I do know about film though. and to say the least, When you adapt a book into a film, it becomes an original screenplay in the sense that it is only based on the story and characters found in the book.

Yes, it would anger very many people who are fans of the book, but in a dramatic sense, you can certainly make a descent film out of it. It wouldn't be the same as the book by any means, but it would be a good movie.

In fact I realize that it would never happen, this is really just an exercise for me in adaptation. Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I'm doing it just to a)see if I can make it work. and b) practice screenwriting, probably admire it, post it on some blog, then shelve it and move on.

But anyways, my sig. probably has to do with the same thing that guy's name does. It's from a song by Circa Survive on Juturna called (go figure) house of leaves. the entire album was inspired in part by the book and also by the film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. In the song, towards the middle the lyrics are reversed (like the crazy typography of the book) and mixed brilliantly so it gives an eerie jumbled/ building tone to the song before the ending. Here's some of the lyrics:

(second verse)
Haunting us, these
Defferent meanings and
Spectral beings...
We're fighting sleep with
Broken, rusted weaponry

Sing so softly and low like
You want me to hear
Stolen what you can't afford
What's that muffled Beating for...
(reverb/echo:...eating for...)

(Chorus)
I've been Lying
Wide awake terrorized
By the buzzing of the television
These modern things we know, (getting you off)
These modern things we know...

Here's the only link i could find: go to myspace and search for circa survive hidden track

Click on "Hidden Track Circa Survive"

This is actually how I found out about the book. So, props to Circa Survive for this. (Not to mention Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is an amazing movie).

**lostinca** · 02-05-2012, 02:08 PM

I also don't want to seem rude, but HOL can't ever be made into a movie. My boyfriend writes screenplays and he has talked about the concept of turning HOL into a movie and I even tell him that it is a horrible idea. Yes he's very creative, however I really doubt that anyone (including MZD) could make HOL into a movie, things like this need to be played out in the readers imagination.

**Ellimist** · 02-05-2012, 03:47 PM

Would you consider a Navidson Record-only movie?

**Canine Sapien** · 05-01-2012, 04:56 AM

I've scanned through this thread (I'm at work at the moment so I can't really go through each and every post individually - not until later anyway) and I was just wondering why do people generally think that HoL shouldn't be made into a film? Don't get me wrong, I agree - I don't think it should be made into a movie. But what are your reasons, specifically? Is it because the importance of the ergodic treatment of the novel outweighs the story/stories?

**Tig Ol Bitties** · 06-29-2012, 11:13 AM

I think the idea of an HoL movie would be interesting. A lot would have to be changed but I think it could work. For example, instead of little journal entries and footnotes Johnny makes, he'd be making little video diaries. Like wise, he wouldn't have discovered Zampano's manuscript, he would have discovered a series of tapes, video reels, and digital videos that compose of interviews, critiques, and snippets of TNR.

Some people mentioned along the lines of the mystery celebrities that come over for dinner as for how it wouldn't work. I say play it out just like it does in the book. Keep them a mystery. Their faces would be blurred out and their voices distorted.

The exploration video's could easily be just the trailers and commercials for the movie.

A lot would be changed and some stuff would be lost but I think you could definitely get a good movie out of it.

**Ellimist** · 06-29-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tig Ol Bitties

you could definitely get a good movie out of it.

That would barely be recognizable to anyone as even a derivative of MZD's work.

**Tig Ol Bitties** · 06-29-2012, 05:49 PM

I gotta say I disagree. Considering the core narrative is still there, any one with a passing knowledge of the story would clearly be able to recognize it for what it is. Yes a lot of stuff would be lost. A big part of the book is the typography and lay out. The whole idea of the book itself as a labyrinth would probably be taken out since you wouldn't be able to do the looping footnotes but video is not the same medium as a book.

I think a lot of the themes and ideas could translate well and even be worked better on film. A brilliant director would be able to do so much with the idea of light, darkness, and sound. Imagine how much more creepy it would be to have the blind Zampano, not only write about a documentary that focuses so much on light, but to actually comment on the reel of videos that would make up part of TNR as though he was actually watching it.

**Ellimist** · 06-29-2012, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Tig Ol Bitties

I gotta say I disagree. Considering the core narrative is still there, any one with a passing knowledge of the story would clearly be able to recognize it for what it is. Yes a lot of stuff would be lost. A big part of the book is the typography and lay out. The whole idea of the book itself as a labyrinth would probably be taken out since you wouldn't be able to do the looping footnotes but video is not the same medium as a book.

I think a lot of the themes and ideas could translate well and even be worked better on film. A brilliant director would be able to do so much with the idea of light, darkness, and sound. Imagine how much more creepy it would be to have the blind Zampano, not only write about a documentary that focuses so much on light, but to actually comment on the reel of videos that would make up part of TNR as though he was actually watching it.

Udder. Nonsense.

some stuff would be lost ... a lot of stuff would be lost

a lot of the themes and ideas could translate well and even be worked better on film.

Because... it's a book ABOUT a film. Which doesn't exist. Inventing and then showing the film would defeat the purpose.

**Tig Ol Bitties** · 06-29-2012, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ellimist

Utter. Nonsense.

Thank you for that well put and concise argument.

Movies centering around themes of light, darkness, sound, sensation have been done to great effect. The film not existing however is not a theme that would be lost at all. If anything it would add a greater mystery to the idea.

Here you'd have Johnny with snippits of the greater film, with interviews by semi famous people critiquing and talking about the movie that he clearly has in his hands, yet no where else in his world is there a single mention. Imagine he pops in the first reel and there's the Miramax logo. Obviously a great starting point for an investigation. Yet when he contacts the film studio they reply that they have no idea what he's talking about. They mystery of the film remains and if anything is expanded upon.

With visual cues from Johnny's vlogs, one could easily see his rapid descent into madness. His apartment in the background slowly getting covered in drawings of black squares, the box of house photos scattered around. You'd be able to see his greasy hair and thin starving figure as he slowly loses himself into the experience. There are plenty of things that could translate well into film.

**Ellimist** · 06-29-2012, 06:16 PM

Movies centering around themes of light, darkness, sound, sensation have been done to great effect.

Unless they were based on a book about a movie that doesn't exist.

However, what you're saying is that a movie with these ideas could be good. Sure, that's possible. But it wouldn't be

of Leaves. It would be something totally different. The medium is definitely part of the message.