Translating the Olde English?

[Dr. Perfect]

Any help here? My COED doesn't seem to help with that...

[fearful_syzygy]

The search function might, though.
As will Appendix II-F, at least partly.

[Nash]

The search function might, though...

You could be gentle ...

[Dr. Perfect]

The search function might, though.
As will Appendix II-F, at least partly.

I must be bad at using the search function
a search for 'Old' and 'English' did not give me the thread that Nash cites.
and a search for 'exhaustion' and 'me' didn't give me any of the threads you found elsewhere
I suck at teh internet.

Thanks for your help, though.

[zakalwe]

At least you tried... SF use is a black art.

[fearful_syzygy]

a search for 'Old' and 'English' did not give me the thread that Nash cites.
and a search for 'exhaustion' and 'me' didn't give me any of the threads you found elsewhere.

As zakalwe said it can be tricky finding what you're looking for around here, especially if you're searching for something as vague as "old" or "me". The trick is to try various combinations and permutations of words. For instance, if you search for "old english" specifying "forum: of Leaves" and making sure to select "Search for all terms", it comes up near the bottom of the second page of hits. Admittedly it takes a little bit of wading to find it, but what do you expect when searching for two such common words?
The same goes for "exhaustion me". If you search for those two words, even with the precautions above, you get nothing of consequence. However, a search of "zampano tom" yields far greater dividends.

Obviously you can't be expected to be a master searcher the moment you turn up here. Even lifers like me and Nash are sometimes unable to find things even if we know exactly what we're looking for. But again as zakalwe said, at least you tried, which is more than can be said for a lot of newbies.

Welcome aboard.

[zakalwe]

Don't listen to him. He's a spy.

Oh, wait. He's agreeing with me. Clever...

[Broken Wings]

According to my English teacher's Olde English Glossary the craziness on page 601 translates as follows: Mind be of use bcause the hear is resolute, therefor you spirit is obligated, because more therefor our strenght is small. I didn't say it makes sense, but that's what we think it says.

[fearful_syzygy]

Page 653:

Hige sceal þē heardra,__________heorte þē cēnre,
mōd sceal þē māre,__________þē ūre mægen lȳtlað.⁴⁴⁷

The Battle of Maldon

________________
⁴⁴⁷"By as much as our might may diminish, we will harden our minds, fill our hearts, and increase our courage." — Ed.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (since I'm only basing this on that translation and my knowledge of Icelandic), but 'Hige' means 'minds', 'heardra' means 'harden', 'heorte' means 'hearts', 'mōd' means 'courage', and 'lȳtlað' means 'decreased'. So you can see how it fits together, more or less.

[poco loco]

I was wondering if the International Phoenetic Alphabet is a way of translating the "Olde English"? I went and bought the COED and in the front there are all the pronunciation symbols that look like the so-called old-english characters in the book. Also, some of the aids in understanding the pronunciations actually use the word "daisy" to demonstrate how to pronounce the phonemes. It's not a coincidence that the name Daisy is a character, do you think? I know I saw a discussion about this before, just can't find it now.

[fearful_syzygy]

I assume you're thinking of this old post.

As for using the IPA to 'translate' Old English, I don't think you're on the right track. It can certainly help you pronounce it, but it won't help you understand it, any more than looking up the phonetic spellings of the German or French passages will help you understand them, unless you speak German or French.

[poco loco]

fearful synergy, you are very perceptive in ways you have yet to grasp....
Have you ever watched a child learning to read, how they sound out the parts of the words before they actually end up putting it all together and pronouncing the word correctly? You can see THAT moment where they recognize the word and they have conquered it...when they realize how simple the word really was...I wonder if pronounced out loud, would we then recognize the words tehy are supposed to be in olde english? Could it then be translated? Factor in that spelling wasn't standardized until more recently.
But still...why is Daisy in the intro of the COED?

[fearful_syzygy]

fearful synergy, you are very perceptive in ways you have yet to grasp....

Perceptivity is certainly at issue here, it's true.

As for Daisy, who knows why they picked that word for the COED. It's certainly curious, but I would be slightly cautious about setting up a direct correlation between that and the character's name until I'd seen an earlier edition of the COED which MZD might have seen at the time of writing.

[poco loco]

It hadn't occured to me that the edition of the COED the MZD used was probably different that the one I recently purchased. Now I wonder if his version did have Daisy in it? Do we know which version of COED MZD used?
And actually on page 595 Pelafina wrote to Johnny that he would need more than the COED to translate, he actually needs some olde english "under his belt."
Isn't Olde English a kind of beer they sell in 40 ouncers? Just wondering if maybe it's a pun?

[sutrix]

he actually needs some olde english "under his belt."

Perhaps that's just Johnny's interjection; he really, badly, totally needs to meet that English chick.

[poco loco]

And don't forget about Clara English.
Do you think "clara" is "clear"...is Johnny getting over "clear english?"
Shit, I don't know what I am struggling to say here...
Help?

[sutrix]

And don't forget about Clara English.

Erm, that's what I said.

[marsjams13]

And don't forget about Clara English. Do you think "clara" is "clear"...is Johnny getting over "clear english?"

Erm, that's what I said.

Perhaps that's just Johnny's interjection; he really, badly, totally needs to meet that English chick.

close, but you weren't quite clear

[sutrix]

Is there anyone else named English in the book? Or did you mistake my English for British? :?

[marsjams13]

actually i was just punning poco loco's Clara as "clear" thing, which was the only part of what s/he said that you didn't -therefore, you weren't as "clear".


ok, so it wasn't funny. Still - don't make me explain myself :x

[fearful_syzygy]

Do you think "clara" is "clear"...is Johnny getting over "clear english?"

Yes.

[hawaiianguy3]

Yeah, I know this thread is over a year old- so what? You wanna fight about it?

Micel biþ se Meotudes egsa, for þon hí séo molde oncyrreð!
(metod) (ege, egesa) (héo) (oncirran)

Meotudes - (metod)
egsa - (ege, egesa)
hí - (héo)
oncyrreð - (oncirran)

The words in (parenthesis) were the closest words in the dictionaries to what was in the letter.
Some of the Old English words have multiple meanings, which makes translating them that much harder.

Using this site and this one, I was able to find most of the Old English words used in the letter. I came up with:

(The different colors indicate the seperate Old English words. Great=Micel, to be=biþ, etc.)

"Great to be the God terror, in sight of after that she pupil (of eye) sand/world transform."

The different colors indicate different Old English words.

Yeah. That's what I thought, too.

So, like all languages, you can't just trade the words for English words and expect it to work. You need to know what goes where and all that technical stuff. I do not know how to translate my translation. Maybe something like:

"It would be great if I was a scary God, all I saw after that would turn to sand."

or, if you take "séo" to mean "apple of eye" (maybe child/son?) and "molde" to mean "world" then it could be something like:

"If I was a scary God, after that, my son, the world would transform."

I don't know. Maybe that's not right at all. The words themselves are, though.

And it doesn't help that Pelafina wasn't sure if she got it right or not, which may account for the words I couldn't find but found very close ones.

[hawaiianguy3]

F'ing poop, man. (I don't know how family-friendly this site is...)

That's what I said when I saw this, posted by none other than fearful_syzygy on this thread which perfectly translates the *song*, apperently, into english. All that time wasted. And don't even say it. I tried searching.

Anyway, it's "Great is the fear of the Lord, before which the world stands still."

[elmago]

He established
the firm foundations,
the corners of the world
and the high heavens. (i.e the )
A fool is the one who does not fear his Lord
-- death comes to him unprepared. (i.e Tom)
Blessed is he who lives humbly
-- to him comes forgiveness from heaven. (i.e, the Seafarer, aka Navy)

Uton we hycgan
hwær we ham agen,

Let us ponder
where we have our homes

Quite enlightening poem. (BTW, I'm impressed by how much English changed. Spanish is not that different from Latin)