Zampano's ------> French Foreign Legion

eoin · 01-25-2002, 04:12 AM

There has been some speculation about Zampano's past, cause of blindness, martial imagery and references etc.

I think references in the text make it clear that Zampano was a French Foreign Legionnaire, and present at the Dien Bien Phu military catastrophe which compeelled the French to pull out of Vietnam back in the Fifties. Consider the names of the Franch bunkers (Beatrice, Gabrielle, Isabelle, Anne-Marie etc - named after the FCommanding French general's former mistresses apparently) - these names are all mentioned in connection with Zampano - I believe one of the volountary readers informs Truant of this - apologies - I am unable to provide a page reference at present)

Also his blindness; a combat injury?

Now - is the House in some fashion a metaphor for Zampano's presence in Indochina - is this what fascinates Zampano? An incursion into place where he/Navy has no right to be?

Another question - one can't help but link an individual's service in the Foreign Legion with a desire to atone for, evade, or forget the past. Did Zampano perhaps commit a crime so terrible that he felt compelled to seek his own destruction in the Foreign Legion? Did he flee justice and the corpses of his wife and/or children and join the Legion?

**Francis Glances** · 01-25-2002, 08:23 AM

Good work fella

**bluebaby** · 01-25-2002, 09:45 AM

wow! of course! i don't know how i missed that!

**bluebaby** · 01-25-2002, 09:49 AM

page xxii:

"Zampano had seven names he would occasionally mention: Beatrice, Gabrielle, Anne-Marie, Dominique, Eliane, Isabelle and Claudine. He apparently only brought them up when he was disconsolate and for whatever reason dragged back into some dark tangled time."

I guess I always assumed they were lovers, or his readers! Duh!

**switchindie** · 01-25-2002, 12:20 PM

thank you for that really smart observation

**bologna36** · 01-30-2002, 09:18 PM

Another thing to mention, that I thought of while reading the post "Purely Arbitrary," was something bluebaby mentioned about the initials RLB on the shotgun under Zampano's bed. While eion is probably completely correct about where Zampano's military career likely ended, I don't think that's where it started. First of all, that was only about fifty years before Zampano's death, putting him around the age of 30 at that time. You don't get too many privates-or whatever they'd be called in the French Foreign Legion-that are 30 years old. Most likely, Zampano, by that time, was one of the officers that would have been at least partially responsible for the Dien Bien Phu military catastrophe that eion brings up.

The reason I say this isn't the beginning of Zampano's military history is not just his age, but the letter in Appendix D, "Letter to the Editor," in which the RLB on the shotgun found under Zampano's bed is explained. The initials "RLB" were explained as a distinguishing characteristic on the WWII Ithaca Model 37 Trench gun. He says only 1,420 were produced. Meaning most likely, to have not only owned one, but known it so well from the time it was first produced to the time he lost his sight, and thus his ability to learn the intricacies of the weapon, he most likely was issued one. Any similar weapon made after WWII would not have had the RLB on it. So most likely, Zampano started off in WWII, in his early twenties, and continued his military career until the mid-fifties, when he lost his sight.

Now, it's late, and I'm tired, but one last thing to think about that I can't really think clearly enough to get into is the idea that, rather than a metaphor for his own failure as a father, perhaps the Navidson Record uses one person's failure as a father as a metaphor for his failure to his men. Because as crushing as it would be to have witnessed and lived through something like that on the front lines, it's almost more of a terrible, life-wrenching thought to know that he was in some way responsible for it, as any good leader would feel was the case.

But anyway, I'm rambling. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, but I'm interested to see what people think.

**Rubble** · 06-24-2002, 08:10 PM

I've been searching all over the internet, and I can't find what those seven names have to do with the French Foreign Legion, or with the fall of Dien Bien Phu. Can someone please elaborate this? or at least post a link with more info about this topic?

**delirium** · 06-25-2002, 12:23 AM

Yeah (I posted this topic under my old log in - nice to see it back again) - Dien Bien Phu was a remote airfield the French were using in the Central Highlands area of Vietnam to counter-insurge the Viet Minh supply lines. The commanding French General named each of the defensive bunkers located around the airfield after a female, apparently all former mistresses of his. Check out this site for a short history:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war.../11/spotlight/

and this one for a military science point of view:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1991/BHD.htm

From a HoL perspective, the seven names are mentioned by Zampano, given his military metaphors etc I think it's fair to assume that Zampano was present at Dien bien Phu, probably a French Foreign legionnaire.

**Rubble** · 06-25-2002, 01:43 AM

Thanks delirium. Knowing this stuff, it seems obvious that Zampano was there. HoL doesn't give up clues about Zampano easily, does it?

Do you know where to find the names of any of the other defensive bunkers? I'm curious if some of the other names from HoL match up, like Tatiana, Kyrie, or Pelafina even. Everyones' names seem important, but many are difficult to figure out how they would be.

[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Rubble ]

**delirium** · 06-25-2002, 06:12 AM

Only 7 bunkers were named apparently (I guess because there were only 7 principle defensive positions as opposed to the General not having had more than 7 mistresses).
http://members.tripod.com/~vet4/foreignlegion.html

They were called Beatrice, Gabrielle, Anne-Marie, Dominique, Eliane, Isabelle and Claudine.

**girl2** · 06-25-2002, 09:06 PM

k, this might be a stupid question too but i am totally unmilitarily educated...

how many people would know the bunker's names? would everyone in the entire army, or everyone that was posted around them, or only generals, or was it ultra-top secret?

**delirium** · 06-26-2002, 01:24 AM

I an certain the names were common parlance at the time amongst the French soldiers of all ranks. Usually locations are technically described by military forces using coordinates, grid references, or height in the case of hills/mountains. However, those same locations will be given codenames for two reasons, A) ease of use (Elaine is far easier to say than G265/U713, and B) communications security reasons.

**hello?** · 06-28-2002, 03:23 PM

do you think Z's stint in the French Foreign Legion has anything to do with the "Captain Kittinger" thing in the Appendix? Or, for that matter, "this terror that hunts," or "tirer comme des lapins?"

And what's the deal with "Kutch dekta?"

**delirium** · 06-29-2002, 06:07 AM

Not at all sure about Appendix B, the cobwebs of references and possible links are just so huge.

As for Captain Kittinger, I'm not sure. Presuming that Zampano is not French, he would not have been an officer in the French Foreign Legion. Also, as Zampano boasts to one of his readers, he did not even finish High School, therefore a commission would have been unlikely. Perhaps Zampano served under a Captain Kittinger, but that's merely speculation.

The are an awful lot of captains mentioned in HoL, which is testiminy to the number of maritime, as opposed to military, references within the book. So perhaps Capt Kittinger was of the maritime variety.

As for "Kutch Dekta? Kutch Nahin, Sahib." Well, the 'Sahib' for me implies arabic or a subcontinental language (doesn't it mean 'master' or somesuch)? But I really don't have a clue. Would welcome some guidance.

**Rubble** · 07-01-2002, 02:26 AM

quote

The are an awful lot of captains mentioned in HoL, which is testiminy to the number of maritime, as opposed to military, references within the book.

I don't know about other countries (likes yours, delirium) but the US has the rank of 'captain' in all branches of the military. It's a higher rank in the navy, but the other others have captains, also. (I think a coast gaurd captain is the same rank as a navy captain, actually. But the rest are like O-3 as opposed to O-6). I think even NASA has captains.

So maybe it's navy, maybe not. It would be useful (maybe) to find out if the forces involved in the battle of Dien Bien Phu had 'captains' in their infrastructure, or if they did things differently.

Each countries' services have different names for their ranks. If I remember my naval history properly (and I probably don't), the US navy didn't have the rank of captain until the late 1800's, when they got rid of the rank of commadore.

**delirium** · 07-01-2002, 02:54 AM

No, you're right, the rank of captain is fairly universal to English-speaking Western militaries. The French also use the rank.

However, in HoL almost every reference to captains would be of the maritime variety, eg the Russian captain in Johnny's 'exotic bird' story, the captain who is present when the Haitian drowns in Alaska, the mutinous Spanish explorer etc.

**Rubble** · 07-01-2002, 03:47 PM

Oh, okay, I get it. There's actually alot of navy and sea-faring references once you look for them.

That Captain Kittinger line seems to refer to an event that happened in 1960, though I wouldn't know what.

**fatwoul** · 07-01-2002, 03:51 PM

Captain Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr. USAF
1969, Tularosa, New Mexico.

Jumped from a balloon at 102,800 feet where it was 94 degrees below zero. He free fell 84,700 feet, reaching a speed of 614 mph and is the only person to break the speed of sound without mechanical assistance.

Captain Kittinger landed unharmed thirteen minutes, forty-five seconds after jumping. This is the highest jump and longest free fall ever recorded.

- Maybe a connection to Navidson's final experiences in the house.

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

**delirium** · 07-02-2002, 01:08 AM

Superb.

100,000 feet. Gutsy bastard.

Nice find, and I agree with the House/Navy/falling reference. It is also possible Zampano is indirectly referencing the parachuting into Dien Bien Phu of volounteers during the final weeks of the siege, a celebrated event in French military history.

**fatwoul** · 07-02-2002, 06:53 AM

I was thinking about that - there was a picture on the website I went to showing Kittinger just as he was jumping out of the balloon - he was so high it looked like outer space; Earth looked curved and the tops of the clouds were 50 thousand feet beneath him.

I researched Kittinger before I went back to HOL to look at his mention. It made me smile once I knew who he was:

"Captain Kittinger, you brought us fall early this year."

It also made me wonder whether at that height it would still have the same meaning - whether the instinct that made Kittinger take that jump was the same one that made Navidson go back into the house.

Many people who do that claim to feel a sense of absolution by doing it - that the terrifying act itself rids them of some past sin or guilt.

But bungee jumping is chickenfeed here.

Navidson and Kittinger. TWO very gutsy bastards.

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

**fatwoul** · 07-02-2002, 07:07 AM

Yes - apologies for the date give as 1969 - it looks like it was indeed 1960 as Rubble pointed out above, and delerium has pointed out in the .t.i.m.e.l.i.n.e. thread.

This is a good biography link for Kittinger (with the numbers right this time):

http://www.balloonlife.com/publicati...0/balloonm.htm

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

**SSJRakasha** · 07-02-2002, 07:10 AM

But what of the other names Z mentioned? Namely, Natasha and Redwood? Both show up at least twice im sure.

**girl2** · 07-02-2002, 12:55 PM

k, going with the war theme, here are some ideas for redwood (i think some of them have been gone over before):

THEORY 1: REDWOOD CITY, CA, a tiny town in northern california that was affected by ww2. zampano sounds afraid of redwood, right? maybe he is referring to the city as a symbol of the drastic change caused by the war.

check out link: http://www.humboldt.edu/~jcb10/rcwar.shtml

or read:
"Most changes in Redwood City after the Pearl Harbor attack were probably in step with those experienced by other similar-sized communities across the country. However, with its coastal location near a major city and large Japanese American population, Redwood City also faced situations that were unique to itself. Although there were significant gradual adjustments to be made as the war progressed --*men entering the service in large numbers, significant numbers of women joining the workforce, rationing, etc. -- there was no period like that after the first two months following Pearl Harbor for sheer, drastic change. People living in Redwood City, and those who worked there, such as in the press, had to face up to the shock of suddenly being at war, the perceived threat of attack, the removal of an active part of the population and a complete change to the national mood. "Redwood Citizens" were forced to adjust to the new world situation and change their lives in a very brief period of time, and most seemed to make a smooth, if uncertain, transition."

THEORY #2: IWO JIMA. i'm totally not a war buff, but one of the reasons iwo jima was so catastrophic was because the japanese were traveling through underground tunnels, right? maybe someone can expand on this more, but what i read said the united states fighters had no idea that the caves they were trying to protect themselves in were actually directly above japanese built tunnels. the japanese sturdied the tunnels with wood. maybe redwood?

read this:
"A surgeon would establish an operating theater in a safe place. With sandbags and tarp he'd build a little hospital and treat his patients away from the battle. Then at night when he lay down exhausted to sleep he'd hear foreign voices below him. Only when his frantic fingers clawed through the sand and hit the wooden roof of an underground cavern would he realize he had been living atop the enemy all along."

pretty scary, eh? if zampano was there to experience that, i bet he'd be afraid of the wood that he had discovered there...

THEORY #3: uh, let's take it back old school civil war style... ALLEN C. REDWOOD, who served in the 55th Virginia Infantry.

read:
"Trained as an artist before the war broke out, Redwood sketched scenes of camp life that he sent home to illustrate his life as a soldier. A serious wound to his elbow at Gettysburg nearly cost him his artistic career, but he recovered. After the war, Redwood settled in Baltimore and then moved to New York where he drew and painted many scenes of Confederate soldier life based on his experiences in the 55th. Many of Redwood's paintings are on display in the Virginia Historical Society in Richmond. Early books used drawings because the process to print photographs in newspapers had not yet been developed. These sketches and illustrations are as much relics of the Civil War period as are the old bullets and rusting canteens of that era."

trained as an artist, eh? kinda reminiscent of navy snapping photos of deadly situations, right?

THEORY #4: CHINA'S REDWOOD TREE

read this:
"China's deciduous dawn redwood tree ( Metasequoia ) is believed to be a related species and is perhaps an ancestor of the California redwood. This genus was named and described from fossil remains a few years before the few living specimens were discovered during World War II. Fewer than 1,000 trees were found, and they were on the verge of extinction by lumbering. Dawn redwoods are now propagated elsewhere, chiefly in California. The tree sometimes called South American redwood is in the unrelated brazilwood genus. The sequoia is classified in the division Pinophyta , class Pinopsida, order Coniferales, family Taxodiaceae."

found during WORLD WAR 2? hmmm...

i don't know if any of these will help, but this redwood thing is bugging the hell out of me! does this make sense to anyone? anyone see an explanation? anyone? i feel like research is getting me nowhere... *shrug*

**delirium** · 07-02-2002, 01:05 PM

Redwood is mentioned once on page 547, "I saw him him once a long time ago when I was young...".

So he would appear to be a contemporary of old man Z's. Can anyone tell me if Zampano mentions the name anywhere else?

**Rubble** · 07-02-2002, 05:59 PM

delirium, Redwood is mentioned on the top of pg 337, at the end of a pargraph about Myth being a stalker, Redwood being one of the examples.

[there's also a redwood on pg 129, in the window, but it seems to be unrelated to Redwood the cat-eater]

Wow girl2, impressive. I think maybe you have to be already familiar with the Redwood connection to catch it. Kinda like the 7 Bunkers that started this thread. Someone already familiar with the battle of Dien bien Phu was necessary to actually see the connection. I never would've found the 7 bunkers connection, and I think I have the same odds of finding the Redwood connection. That word is just too common.

**hello?** · 07-03-2002, 06:52 PM

Captain Kittinger = Donnie?

By the way, what's the speed of sound and what's the speed of terminal velocity?

**fatwoul** · 07-03-2002, 07:10 PM

I was talking about this to someone last night - Jumpin' Joe has left a dent in my psyche for some reason.

Terminal velocity is different for any object, depending on its surface area/mass ratio etc. It also depends on the density and temperature of the air the body is falling through.

Similarly, the speed of sound is also different depending on air density, and temperature, but is usually around 300 metres/sec.

Kittinger fell nearly 20 miles. during that fall the temperature would have increased from -94 to somewhere in the high 30s Celsius. The density of the air would also increase, and probably these two factors would not alter consistently, because of air currents etc.

Because it is not clear at exactly what point in his trip he exceeded the speed of sound, it is difficult to judge what speed that actually was.

However, the biography says he exceeded 614 miles per hour during his trip, so we should assume that the speed of sound at the height he exceeded it was less than 614 miles/hr.

The amazing bit (to me) is the amount he needed to slow down by in order to open the parachute. Usually, parachute speeds are less than 200 miles/hr, meaning that he had to slow down by 400 miles/hr before he could pull his cord. Some of this speed would be bled off in the form of heat as he fell through increasingly dense air, but presumably some of it was used up by trying to fight his way into a flat unaerodynamic shape, slowing his descent.

As we've said before, what a guy.

**fatwoul** · 07-04-2002, 06:44 PM

Before I forget, on a similar note, congratulations to Steve Fossett for finally getting that record he so dearly wanted.

Also, anyone interested in this gutsy bastard stuff may be interested in an attempt later in the summer.

Some time between now and September, Colin Prescott and Andy Elson will be lifting off from St Ives in Cornwall in an open gondola helium balloon (wearing space suits), to attempt to break the altitude record for a balloon.

All being well, they will reach 132,000 feet (25 miles!) - allowing them to be visible with the naked eye from up to 600 miles away.

To me, the most amazing statistics involve the balloon itself - its 1,300 feet tall!

Unfortunately these guys aren't going to make the jump, but at least that keeps Jumpin' Joe's record safe.

It will be Britain's first manned mission into space (we have to start somewhere)

Good luck gentlemen.

**billypilgrim** · 09-04-2002, 04:13 AM

to resurrect an earlier topic on this thread: on page xvi johnny is mentioning various odds and ends he found in z's apartment. among them is a battered zippo with "Patent Pending" stamped on it. I know zippo's were originally made in 1932, and (I THINK) issued to soldiers in WWII..so if his has that stamped on the bottom he must've gotten it pretty early.. Just more evidence that he was in the great war.

**Andrea1204** · 09-04-2002, 06:44 AM

Reading the whole Zampano-Navy-NR-War posts here made me think of something:

Navidson was said to be a very rare last name. Perhaps the "real author" whoever we unanimously agree it to be, chose that name on purpose, i.e. Navy Captain = Navidson/Navy
Nav=as a prefix (Navigate, circum-navigate)
No one can argue that Exploration #5 and all the expl's before that Navy and his men were navigators in their own right.
Just a thought, interested in hearing people's ideas.
Also, a question: any ideas on what kind of a name is Pelafina? I've never heard of it, and I'm sure it means something interesting.
Any ideas why we never know whether Zampano is a last name or a first name? Why does he only refer to him as Zampano? This can be another reason to think he may have run away from having done something terrible earlier in his life and doesn't want anyone to know who he really is.
Just a thought.

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