Last Page: Yggdrasil?

[fatwoul]

I think the O is meant to show that it is written by P. as she signs one of her letters Mmmy... what is missing? The big O.

Yeah I like that one.

[heartbreak]

In the Haunted liner notes, there is the referance guide linking the songs to certain pages in the book, each song referances a page concerning Johnny, a page concerning the Navidson Record, and one of P.'s letters.

For example: Walk The Walk: pg 180 JT, pg 467 NR, pg 613 (Nov. 1, '85) The Letters

Each listing is that way except for two.

Wild: pg 78 JT, pg 16 NR, pg 559 The Letters

(pg 559 isn't actually one of the letters, its the poem called The Panther, maybe the poem has something to do with P.)

and

If You Were Here: pg 518-519 JT, pg 528 NR, Pg 709


(perhaps another link between Yggdrasil and P.)

[stevenflorence]

The last page has really been bugging me ever since I finished the book the first time.

quote:

---

Y g g
d
r
a
s
i
l

What miracle is this? This giant tree.
It stands ten thousand feet high
But doesn't reach the ground. Still it stands.
Its roots must hold the sky.



[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: Spanish_Doll ]

i believe that the tree described here is the Sephirothic Tree of Life. when i first read this in the book it made me think of the tree in the Neon Genesis film 'the end of evangelion' i will try to find a picture to post here later but in the mean time watch the film.

[stevenflorence]

The Sephirothic Tree of Life



it says that the tree stands 10 thousand feet high which made me think each Sephiroth (or Sphere) could represent 1000 feet because there are 10 sephiroths on the tree, and notice how the tree in the picture is upsidedown? this could be "the roots holding up the sky".

note: there is the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden; the tree that Christ was crucified on; Yggdrasil, the tree that Odin hung upside down from in Norse mythology before receiving the knowledge of the Runes; and the Bodhi tree that Buddha sat under. All trees relating to the roots of wisdom and life.

[UberMan]

I always thought of the "ten thousand feet" bit as being not entirely accurate, and the number 10,000 was used sort of as a metaphor to hint at the Tree being really goddamn big, and not as a literal height measurement.

[Raminagrobis]

I always thought of the "ten thousand feet" bit as being not entirely accurate, and the number 10,000 was used sort of as a metaphor to hint at the Tree being really goddamn big, and not as a literal height measurement.

Yeah, that's how I took it, decem milia saepe pro infinito numero accipiuntur.

Ten thousand is also (literally) a myriad. The only use of the word 'myriad' seems to be on p. 48, in the passage where Johnny rants about 'differance' and the elusiveness of meaning: the 'myriad of games' held in the word 'gold' (which alludes to p. 626 if I'm not mistaken).

[juxtapolemic]

reading the above posts i drew a relation between the mythic yggdrasil and the tree to which chad sought refuge as Navidson was yet lost within the house.

and to answer an old question above, the snake entwining the tree was, i believe, ouroborous.

[fearful_syzygy]

No that would be Níðhöggr, I believe, the snake/dragon which lives at the bottom of the Well of Hvergelmir, gnawing incessantly on the deepest root of Yggdrasil and 'feasts on the mighty dead' in order to sustain itself.


However, given the tendency for myths and legends to overlap and intertwine in HoL, I think it might be reasonable to suggest that the O under Yggdrasil is in fact the Ouroboros.

I tentatively tried to draw some parallels between Old Norse mythology and Gnosticism here, but I may have been clutching at straws. (I was certainly talking out of my arse). That was a long time ago, glad to see not much has changed...

Welcome to the forum, btw.


Edit: Just for fun...

Askurinn er allra trjáa mestur og bestur. Limar hans dreifast yfir heim allan og standa yfir himni. Þrjár rætur trésins halda því uppi og standa afar breitt. Ein er með ásum en önnur með hrímþursum, þar sem forðum var Ginnungagap. Hin þriðja stendur yfir Niflheimi, og undir þeirri rót er Hvergelmir, en Níðhöggur gnagar neðan rótina. En undir þeirri rót er til hrímþursa horfir, þar er Mímisbrunnur, er spekt og manvit er í fólgið, og heitir sá Mímir er á brunninn. Hann er fullur af vísindum, fyrir því að hann drekkur úr brunninum af horninu Gjallarhorni. Þar kom Alföður og beiddist eins drykkjar af brunninum, en hann fékk eigi fyrr en hann lagði auga sitt að veði.

Which means, roughly translated:

• The Ash Tree is the largest and greatest of all trees. Its limbs spread over the the entire world and extend beyond the sky. The tree's three roots hold it up and are positioned very broadly. One is with the Æsir and another with the Frost Giants, where Ginnungagap once was. The third stands over Niflheimur, and under that root is Hvergelmir, but Níðhöggur gnaws at the bottom of that root. Under that root which lies with the Frost Giants, there lies Mímisbrunnur, in which knowledge and sense are held, and Mímir is the name of the one whose well it is. He is full of wisdom, for he drinks of the well with the horn Gjallarhorn. The All-father [Óðinn] came there and requested one drink of the well, but he was not granted it until he gave his eye in return.

Sorry for the appalling translation; but at least it wasn't Babelfish!

[Stencil]

I think this one from India is most redolent of HoL, and also these two, twins separated. By a ring? Could Karen be the Yoko Ono of the Navidsons?

[katatonic]

I was just reading about Yoko for one of my finals... How strange.

I think that's a good possiblity, that Karen could be the snake - she is written to be swarmed with temptation and deceit, however subtle it may or may not be.
And the book shows Tom's innocence (despite the drug/alcohol habit) in his good-heartedness. And Navy has become confused and lost, like a child, but still mirrors the goodness in his brother. They would be well-represented by those twins.

Or the house could be the snake. It is, in some ways, a circle, that they are stuck in. Maybe for eternity? And it reunites the brothers (the touching fingers in the picture), and then splits them up again.
Interesting.

[Stencil]

Or the could be the snake. It is, in some ways, a circle, that they are stuck in. Maybe for eternity? And it reunites the brothers (the touching fingers in the picture), and then splits them up again.
Interesting.

Very interesting: like Tom and Will, they are paradoxically estranged and reuinted by that very distance. And what is in the circle? Is it transparent or is in a mirror?

[katatonic]

Or the could be the snake. It is, in some ways, a circle, that they are stuck in. Maybe for eternity? And it reunites the brothers (the touching fingers in the picture), and then splits them up again.
Interesting.

Very interesting: like Tom and Will, they are paradoxically estranged and reuinted by that very distance. And what is in the circle? Is it transparent or is in a mirror?

I don't know. Maybe it's opaque. They may know exactly what is on the other side of it, but not quite be able to grasp it.
Or it could be a mirror, and maybe the brothers are each parts of one person - different parts of the psyche. (I know, it's been said before, but it's relevant.)
Or if it was transparent, I think the question would then be whether or not there was a boundary there. Is it glass, or are they actually touching?

[sutrix]

Is it glass, or are they actually touching?

Take it one step further: if they are touching, do they know (if) they are?

(I'm not being cryptic; I can't seem to expand on this idea.)

[katatonic]

Take it one step further: if they are touching, do they know (if) they are?

(I'm not being cryptic; I can't seem to expand on this idea.)

As long as we are looking at the twins as Navy and Tom, that still works.

The real problems start happening when we think about the suggestion that the Dr. Nowell baby was actually JT's twin, what does the picture signify then?
If it is a mirror, it could be JT either thinking that he has a twin, but it's really his reflection. Or it could be him imagining what is on the other side of the mirror.
If it is glass, is he unable to reach his brother?
If it is opaque, does that mean that there never was a brother - a reminder that the story is a story.
And what does the ring/snake signify? Zampano or Pelafina, or MZD or the house? That one picture can create a lot of loose ends.
But what else is new?

[fearful_syzygy]

And what does the ring/snake signify?

If the ring/snake signifies infinity, as it traditionally does, then I find it quite interesting that it should be gnawing at the root of Yggdrasil.

Tempres edax rerum.

[sutrix]

And what does the ring/snake signify?

If the ring/snake signifies infinity, as it traditionally does, then I find it quite interesting that it should be gnawing at the root of Yggdrasil.

Infinity gnawing at its roots/tail? I always thought that's what the symbol for infinity actually conveyed. Interesting indeed.

[scaredoutofmywits]

And what does the ring/snake signify?

If the ring/snake signifies infinity, as it traditionally does, then I find it quite interesting that it should be gnawing at the root of Yggdrasil.

Infinity gnawing at its roots/tail? I always thought that's what the symbol for infinity actually conveyed. Interesting indeed.

that's the point. Ouroborous, is "the infinity snake" and it is indeed chewing it's own tail, much like the never-ending rings of the infiinity symbol...

it's a seperate entity from the snake in the roots of Yggdrasil, as far as I thought.

[fearful_syzygy]

Absolutely. But just because they're separate entities in the mythological tradition, there's no reason why they can't be mixed and matched in HoL.

And welcome aboard, scared. I'm fearful.

[NuerotoxicRomantic]

please pardon if this idea has been posted before.

Seeing how the house is at a nexus between religious and pagan beliefs (the corner of succoth and ash tree lane) Is is possible that on the same page that it would include The Tree from nonchristian belief and include the "O" in a christian sense of "Alpha and Omega" Which means beginning and end. I always thought the "O" would stand for "omega" because it is the last page of the book and thus making it the "end" of the book.

just my thoughts, please comment

[fearful_syzygy]

Yeah I sort of suggested that in this post a while ago, and I still think it makes sense. :)

[modiFIed]

Ygg - (egg) - O - (omega)

In some cosmogonies, the world was hatched from an egg.

An "O" looks like an egg.

An egg sandwich is a very good meal for a summer afternoon.

[NuerotoxicRomantic]

mega does not only measure in size, but also in ammount. In my dictionary it lists mega as "millions or multiplied by a million"

Someone will have to fill in the gaps here because I honestly cannot. But could that mean that there are a million "O" 's? I don't know what the O would stand for in that case, I do not have much knowledge on Norse Mythology (hint: somoene please give me a link to some nice reading materials on the subject) But it might mean a million "things" under Yggdrasil......I remember on the last page it says "It stands ten thousand feet high but it doesn't reach the ground." Meaning that there is something on the ground beneath it?

again, someone will have to fill in the gaps, I'm just opening a door, I don't know anything about anything behind it.

[sutrix]

Someone will have to fill in the gaps here because I honestly cannot. But could that mean that there are a million "O" 's?

A million entries? A million exits?

[fearful_syzygy]

Someone will have to fill in the gaps here because I honestly cannot. But could that mean that there are a million "O" 's?

Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

[NuerotoxicRomantic]

whats....the Albert Hall?

[fearful_syzygy]

http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/...pic.php?t=1725

[luminousechoes]

this thread has been very informative.

[DirkyDiggy]

The paradoxyl center of all three worlds? 0

[fearful_syzygy]

paradoxyl

Is that some kind of prescription drug?

Sounds like it might be a placebo, in that case.

[DirkyDiggy]

paradoxyl

Is that some kind of prescription drug?

Sounds like it might be a placebo, in that case.

Haha...I'm sorry, did I spell it wrong?....or is it possibly the wrong word? "Sounds unbelievable but, could still be true" is the my definition for the word I was trying to use. Not paradox?