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  • A Guide to the Forum

    Introduction

    This is not for you.


    This list is meant to ease up your Search function woes.

    I've skipped a few threads because they (I feel) do not contribute to information regarding the book.

    The most unpleasant part of the project was this: dead links. This forum used UltimateBB as its engine earlier, and then switched over to PHPBB. Switching, however, did not convert all the links provided in the threads. Though it is possible through extensive deduction to find out which thread was linked where, I chose not to do it--you can conveniently call me lazy.

    This happened a second time, when the forum moved to vBulletin. This has rendered a lot of links in the listed threads useless. Indeed, so were most of the thread links right in this very thread till Ellimist updated the links and (after long bouts of playing with Crysis, Windows 7, and Internet Explorer) sent me the updated links. I will slowly check whether his updated links are correct, and I'd like you to to do so too.

    I have tried cross-checking the references made in any thread with the book, but I cannot guarantee that my cross-checking is foolproof.

    The categories provided here are shoddy, at best. Almost no thread sticks to a specific topic. Sometimes threads switch topics altogether. I have tried to grasp the main topics discussed in any thread and specify them, but they are by no means absolute. In fact, in most cases I have oversimplified a thread's discussion.

    This thread only lists threads in the main Of Leaves forum. I would have liked compiling a similar list for the Whalestoe Letters, because I think the two are really one, not to mention the threads in Haunted as well, but since I haven't yet read the Whalestoe Letters or heard the album, I am not in any way qualified to even read the threads, let alone sort them out.

    And one last thing: I know next to nothing of literature, modernism, postmodernism, myth, mythology, philosophy--except the terms themselves. There are several threads where the discussion went quite over my head, so there is more than a slight chance that I might have missed the central gist of a thread while describing it. If you can imagine how it would be if Lude guided you through the book instead of Johnny, then that's how this guide is.

    I hope you find it useful.

    Instructions


    1. First check out A list of useful threads for those new to this site. It should answer most of the basic queries.

    2. I've categorized the threads in a way I feel will make them easily accessible. If you are searching for a specific thread in this list, use your browser's Find function.

    3. Also, do not forget the trusty Search Function. It's much improved in vBulletin than it was in PHPBB when this guide was made.

    4. This compilation is by no means complete. Suggestions and corrections are necessary to make it as useful as possible. If I've goofed up somewhere, let me know. If you feel a description doesn't do a thread justice, suggest what else I could add. If you feel a thread just doesn't fit in a category, tell me.

    5. If you are a new member, now you have absolutely no excuse to start another thread which goes, "Why is in Blue?" So don't do that, okay? Thank you.
    _________________


    Categories
    (The category links will make the thread load up again in a new window.)


    Chronology
    Front Cover/Front Collage/Back Cover
    Theories on the Book, the Author and Textual Layout
    Religion, Mythology and Astrology
    The Navidson Record and the
    Yggdrasil
    The Minotaur
    Photography and Firearms
    Colour
    Animals
    Characters
    Who's Who
    Footnotes
    Checkmark
    Codes
    Typos/Word Play/Echoes
    Appendices
    The Pelican Poems
    The Whalestoe Letters and Pelafina
    The Index
    Books and Literature
    Movies and TV
    Music
    Games
    Articles
    Criticism
    Printing and Editions
    Queries
    Miscellania
    Forum Member Stuff
    Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:49 AM.

  • #2
    Chronology


    Chronologie is a very useful timeline of events in the book. Much kudos to everyone involved in compiling it.

    .t.h.e. .u.l.t.i.m.a.t.e. .t.i.m.e.l.i.n.e. is a timeline of the events in the book. Not as thorough as the Chronologie timeline.

    Gdansk and Kyrie discusses Gdansk Man, Kyrie, Truant's untrustworthiness, the dead prostitute the paramedic mentions (as Johnny tells us) in the Introduction, time, time-travel, time-travel to a period when Zampano could see, and so on. John B. states that Introductions are not the first thing written in any book, so pagination isn't an accurate source of chronology.

    Could it all be unreal? only starts off by hinting at the time lapses in Johnny's entries.

    'Always' and Hallways and Holloway is how this thread begins, but has an interesting post.


    __________________


    Front Cover/Front Collage/Back Cover


    jacket talks about the "blurb" on the inside jacket. Read it, if for no other reason, than this: FallingQuarters sounds sane.

    Perhaps I will alter the whole thing. Kill both children... discusses the note found in the color collage inside the front cover.

    No one has mentioned this... begins with a discussion about the scrap of paper on the front collage, and then talks about red, blue and purple.

    Altering the Whole Thing begins with the Holloway Tape, then talks about the front collage.

    Back cover talks about the brown inscriptions on the back cover.

    question: text written on wall on the back of the book? answers the question.
    Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:32 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Theories on the Book, the Author and Textual Layout


      Key to All Mythology attempts to provide a comprehensive discussion of the Introduction, and hopefully the book.

      Redwood talks about exactly that.

      It seems like a stupid question at first, doesn't it? The question being, What does of Leaves mean?

      About the title... should be: What does of Leaves mean? But of course, that's not the only thing the thread talks about.

      existentialism talks about that; not sure of its connections to the book, though.

      MZD and the Word Puzzle Theory of Literature describes Word Puzzle Theory of Literature, then asks, what is the job of the writer? What is the job of the reader? Then deviates.

      Grand Staircase wonders just what did MZD mean by a grand staircase?

      autobiographical talks about MZD, and his personal relationship as well as what influenced him--and therefore influenced the book.

      What the book is REALLY about has a lot of condensed theories.

      new ideas, possibly lots of stuff? has so many ideas thrown around it is difficult to condense them into a coherent description.

      "Exactly" begins by talking about just how obsessed with measurements and exactness the book seems to be, and then talks about reality, myth, Grand Narratives, HoL's narratives as lasagne, Johnny as Oedipus, Johnny as Odysseus, Johnny as Ishmael, buttons, The Oxford English Dictionary (OED), Concise OED (COED), CODE, History and how it is like the , Oracles and Johnny, TNR as an Oracle, and so on.

      dhambu iceFALL talks about man as nature, man against nature, Holloway as a metaphor for missed integration (though I don't understand what that means). Oh, and it's Khumbu icefall the thread is referring to.

      I Ching, Feng Shui talks about that and lists every major character's Kua numbers and Feng Shui details.

      Game logic and Navidson/Holloway discusses game logic and applies it to the characters.

      the as a grave discusses exactly that before wandering.

      Haven-Slocum Theory discusses (sort of) just that.

      Muss Es Sein talks about that phrase and how perhaps it is a reply to "This is not for you" and also talks about the Beatles in passing.

      What does the Introduction introduce? asks that. Then ponders over the answer.

      call it the scent of history begins with the Introduction, then talks about the concept of something and/or nothing, seeing nothing, cites various passages from the book which mention something and/or nothing, and the binary system (1 and 0). FallingQuarters alert.

      The Disclaimer picks at the book's Disclaimer (The events are set in the future).

      Epigraphs is a collection of Epigraphs and comments upon the same.

      Why does Zampano write TNR? Why does Johnny edit it? explores the possibilities.

      Structure of =book? has some good posts discussing exactly that.

      braille talks about the braille passage in the book. Sort of.

      Help Out Please!!! should actually read: How to read the book.

      Marginalia asks if readers have scribbled in the margins of the book like Johnny says, and asks if we are actually meant to scribble in the book.

      Why? has UrbanBatChild asking, "So, what is it you're looking for in the ? What do you find?" Other members speculate on the same, hinting at structuralism and poststructuralism.

      Themes in the of Leaves talks about themes.

      Proclus, the 'Parmenides' and narratology begins with pwhite discussing an "article by a certain Frédéric Fauquier that looks at the interpretation of Plato's Parmenides by the 5th century C.E. neoplatonist Proclus". It describes the four narrative levels in Parmenides, the four narrative levels in of Leaves. Then it asks, which of the three bookmakers (which is my word, and perhaps not very apt) do we trust? Zampano? Johnny? The Editors? None of them is trustworthy. It discusses the concept of thirdness, and doing something in threes, and narrative. A few of M. M. Bakhtin's ideas are mentioned. And then it evolves into a varied discussion of so many elements I cannot possibly encapsulate in two piddly lines--by which I don't mean to say that I understood all of it or most of it or even half of it.

      The Platonic Khora and HoL begins with that, then discusses the womb, the as a womb, the womb as a grave, whores and how they DNE in the Index (though both whore and prostitute do), the feminine void, "we fucked like rabbits", Bambi, a few other Disney cartoons, and so on.

      makes the heart grow fonder explores the themes of absence and filling the void present in the book.

      Baby Story has a member presenting their view on Johnny's last story in the book. And various members discuss the same.

      New Topic? is about the Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

      Reading Order: A Secret Path asks if there is a secret reading method that will divulge the secrets of the . The Grand Staircase, in other words.

      Roanoke Island talks about mysterious disappearances.

      A is not a[t] home expands on the concept of unheimlich, when is a a home, existence, non-existence, how existance and non-existence both have being (Meinong's theories), unreal space, and so on.

      quid miserum Thamyran picta tabella iuvat? is summarized by the thread starter, pwhite, quite nicely:
      Originally posted by pwhite
      I realize there have been a lot of threads about Zampano's blindness, but what I want to address here is the theme of blindness in HoL, what associations it has, what (and how) it signifies in the narrative. NOT the questions of how he went blind, whether he was blind, etc., which have been discussed extensively elsewhere.
      Real: in Morpheus's words: what is real? How do you define real? (Pardon.)

      Deconstructionism asks, in a roundabout way, if HoL even has a central meaning.

      Here's a drug fueled theory... asks, what if the wrote the book?


      Textual Layout

      Minotaurs, Marines and Albatrosses cites examples of textual layout from other books. It also talks about Coleridge's work. Very interesting.

      New Topic? also talks about Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

      the squares asks this:
      Originally posted by lazysmurff
      why do we always assume that a white space, such as that square, is empty.
      The square in question is the one on p. 143.

      Windows within pages? discusses if the text layout in the book could have another purpose than just cinematic grammar.

      An Empty Stanza talks about empty stanzas.
      Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:34 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Religion, Mythology and Astrology
        (Are grouped together because the threads are never only about one topic.)


        Hey Zeus - Myth and Religion in HoL discusses, in great detail, religion and myth in the book. It also talks about myth, mythmakers, the origins of myth, prophecy, Die Hard: With a Vengeance (the film), the color of light, and then resumes discussing religion and mythology.

        Is this for you? begins by comparing the book to the Bible, then morphs into a psuedo-flaming thread, then equates HoL to a cookbook, then mentions a Twilight Zone episode... and frankly doesn't lead anywhere before somehow miraculously coming back on track with a few more Bible posts.

        The and The Word talks about the Bible, and colors.

        Estne Deus Sibi mortem consciscere potest? translates to God. And free will.

        Yggdrasil, Twins, Kids, and Gods touches on mythology.

        yggdrasil technically talks about Christian myth.

        "The Iliad" passage" talks about Troy and Navidson as God.

        Nile is about the Nile.

        "Exactly" begins by talking about just how obsessed with measurements and exactness the book seems to be, and then talks about reality, myth, Grand Narratives, HoL's narratives as lasagne, Johnny as Oedipus, Johnny as Odysseus, Johnny as Ishmael, buttons, The Oxford English Dictionary (OED), Concise OED (COED), CODE, History and how it is like the , Oracles and Johnny, TNR as an Oracle, and so on.

        "Livre. [sic]" talks mainly about the letter on p. 643 and errors. It also touches on the Bible, Pynchon, Editors, myth, Authorship, unbound text, the unresolvability of the book, this:

        Originally posted by Reader
        Something else that is of interest to consider while looking at this letter:
        "Dear Mr. ___________"
        and "please feel free to contact us directly at ____________."
        These lines are ways of editing as well as the Xs and [sic].

        SO, what we have here are 3 different ways of editing: the underline, the X, and the [sic]. And how many hands has this document passed through since its conception? Some possibilities include: someone(s) at the Whalestoe Institute, Johnny, the Editors . . .

        What I'm driving at here is nothing all that profound, but just a suggestion that each editing method could belong to one person; thus, this letter has been edited at least 3 times before it came to us, the reader.
        Religion, Time Travel, and Implications of HOL has this:

        Originally posted by Ellimist
        Say time travel was feasible right now, assuming we had enough energy and technology for it to work. Say someone went back in time, maybe 3, 4 thousand years and replaced/introduced a significant religious text with... you guessed it, HOL. Based on what you think you know about the book, how would the next few thousand years come to pass? Or would they?
        eye sack/Brahma lamb talks about those two odd phrases.

        God should really be titled "The as God". It discusses this theory without veering too deep into religion, and quoting from Douglas Adams's Hitchhicker books.

        important meditation (page 45)... hints at God, Milton, Ovid and Borges.

        The Beast begins by saying that the beast and staircase are derived from the legend of A Bao A Qu without any concrete explanation.

        HOL/Kabbalah has one post stating that the exists on in its absence--or inexistance.

        Jacob and Esau has interesting posts on Jacob and Esau, and the various ways many parts of the books can be tied to them.

        Norway / The Atrocity / A Swerve talks about those three topics, and about Johnny's Daddy in a roundabout way.

        Zampano as Odin states a few things about Odin. Few.

        Echo's Verse talks about Echoes. It is also a FallingQuarters thread, but it is not a maze.

        of Hades makes a connection between the Greek conception of Hades and the .

        Loki begins well with a story about Loki getting trapped in a tree. Then wanders for a while but doesn't go anywhere.

        page 289-- connecting dots? talks about Cancer, the astrological sign. The post order is all screwed up; and the second post is the first, the third post is the second, and the first post is the third. And so on.

        Page 432... Constellation? has more talk on Cancer and Gemini.

        Alchemy Symbols discusses the occurances of Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Mars, Pluto, Saturn and other symbols.
        __________________


        The Navidson Record and the
        (Discussion regarding Navidson's film and the .)


        The Navidson Record (Including events.)
        hmmmmmm.... asks, how can Zampano write a book about a film he cannot even see? And a few other theories abound.

        The 'real' five and a half minute hallway suggests the real 6 minute hallway. It also brushes on writing as therapy, the first occurance of "out of the blue".

        Endings (spoiler(s) warning) is a very good thread discussing the ending of the Navidson Record, if that's how it really ended, and if someone changed it, who?

        Product Placement in The Navidson Record lists a few (very few) brand names used in the book.

        Daisy as Megan... talks about Navidson's kids, margins of darkness, dragons and monsters.

        The Navidson Record as a memorial talks about just that. Interesting thread.

        Cameras outside? asks this:

        Originally posted by verismo
        A few times, Zampano describes events outside the . How would he know? Are there cameras outside recording things as part of the Navidson Record?
        Karen screams has a lot of different ideas on why Karen screams when the bookshelf incident happens. And it has this:

        Originally posted by SBKelly
        Did Navidson actually burn "The Song of Quesada and Molino"?
        does Navidson read " of Leaves2??? has this:

        Originally posted by fatwoul
        I consider the Navidson's copy of of Leaves to be the same copy as mine. And by that I don't mean the same book, or the same edition. I mean the exact same copy I have on my desk right now. But also beyond that - he is reading the same copy at the same point in time that it rests on my desk. The copy in Navidson's possession is no younger or older than my copy, or Johnny's bundle of pages. They are all the exact same entity, and the single constant joining together all authorship layers of the book.

        If I write something on a page in my copy, Navidson will see it, and in turn so will Johnny. My copy has reassuring, comforting messages to Navy scattered throughout it, to help convince him he will survive. That way, he survives. It makes me feel cool to be the person who saves him. But I only save him in my copy...
        naviston and his book discusses the book Navidson reads, ominously also titled of Leaves. It has one particularly interesting post by malakite: ► click here. Make sure you read that post.

        pg 467 begins with this:

        Originally posted by SR388
        During Explorationi #5 Navidson reads a book called " of Leaves". pg 467 gives the number of pages of this book: 736. Navidson, prior to this part of the story, has read 26 pages. Danielewski's " of Leaves" is 709 pages. 709 + 26 = 735

        Has anyone else noticed this? And what do you all think about it?
        Then discusses it. Then it states this:

        Originally posted by fatwoul
        Shortly after a recent thread I started that is no more, I wrote the following, underneath " of Leaves" on the coversheet:

        It's OK, Navy. Everything will be fine.

        This was because I had become increasingly obsessed with the idea that the copy of of Leaves that Navidson was reading could just as easily be my copy as any other copy, and that he may also be reading the annotations by johnny, the editors, and me!
        daisy attempted suicide? suggests that, then talks about wrists, suicide, and daisy's post exposure scratches.

        Sleep has only one post stating that the people in the Navidson Record have wildly disturbed sleep patterns, and that this should be considered for some meaning. Sleep = death, it says.

        tHe asks if the ending to the Navidson Record sounds too fabricated.

        Dissolving vs Growing has this:

        Originally posted by Farehamer
        My question is, whereas Navidson's body crumbles or begins to dissolve, the opposite happens with Karen where something begins to grow.
        Altering the Whole Thing begins with the Holloway Tape, then talks about the front collage.

        The
        what was it before? speculates about the history of the . Interesting.

        as Predator/Scavenger, and the question of "Malic is just too convoluted to explain in a few lines.

        Am I intruding? has a few good posts by Stencil admist FallingQuarters's junk.

        Tom alone has only one post related to the book, really:

        Originally posted by Stencil
        Though this has little to do with this thread except that it involves Tom: has anyone noticed that Tom is the only one from which nothing is recovered once he is taken by the ? Even Holloway leaves behind some stuff.
        odd or just ironic has a picture of the on Ash Tree Lane.

        ash burns talks of ash, its properties and Navy as Johnny's landlord.

        The and the Center of Everything relates the two in a well laid out manner.

        possibility, impossibility, and Kant talks about those three things, and viewing the from the outside; viewing it as a whole.

        /asylum similarities begins with that, then discusses touches on this: the is the whale.

        The Grand Staircase asks, Which direction do you envision the staircase? Clockwise or counter-clockwise?

        the deal with the north/west/south/east door asks us, why does the door keep shifting sides?

        Question about the first corridor asks the question, and also suggests that the changes itself based upon the psychology of its inhabitants (or invaders).

        Infinite Rooms talks about the implications of infinite and/or repeating rooms.

        What about the doors tells us that though the walls of the are described in minute detail, doors are seldom described. Why so?

        Age of the , chap. XVI. talks about exactly that.

        A is not a[t] home expands on the concept of unheimlich, when is a a home, existence, non-existence, how existance and non-existence both have being (Meinong's theories), unreal space, and so on.

        " and Universe" quotes passages from Gaston Bachelard's "The Poetics of Space". And discusses them as well as space.

        Friendly suggests that the is friendly.

        the as a grave discusses exactly that before wandering.

        Location, location, location asks why the is in Virginia. No elaboration.

        Oak Tree Lane is where the online version of the book placed the at. Sparse discussion about the same.
        Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:35 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yggdrasil
          (This Norse mythology tree has been discussed often enough to deserve a seperate category.)


          Hello, and a few questions talks about Chapter XX, Yggdrasil, and ash trees. In brief.

          yggdrasil stuff.. kyrie revelations? is one of the many yggdrasil threads, but the first one offering actual text which tells you about what yggdrasil is in Norse mythology.

          Three Roots, Three Men, Three Mazes has an interesting point regarding Yggdrasil.

          Yggdrasil, Twins, Kids, and Gods touches on mythology.

          Yggdrasil font finds out which font the Yggdrasil bit is written in. And pictures of centaurs.

          Two ideas tied: Yggdrasil and 9 Dimensions mentions those two ideas, then talks about Errors, and the as the World Wide Web.

          O under Yggdrasil talks about that, the malleability of memory, the drasil.

          yggdrasil technically talks about Christian myth.

          Last Page: Yggdrasil? talks about Yggdrasil and Norse myth as well as the last page of the book.
          _________________


          The Minotaur
          (All things monstrous go here.)


          The Minotaur is the first interesting Minotaur thread.

          Zampano's Floor discusses the (seemingly) beastly marks on Zampano's floor, and who what could have made caused them. Watch out for FallingQuarters's posts.

          Minotaur discusses the Minotaur. Be prepared for a lot of instances of the word; and hence too much red to contend with.

          Cheltenham City Centre... talks about statues of Minotaurs, statues of rabbits, statues of Minotaurs and rabbits.

          se(arch)e 123 is a FallingQuarters thread, but it has a lot of discussion regarding the Minotaur, footnotes, numbers, cutting humans, and so on.

          Minotaur lineout == Wrong myth? talks about one possible reason why all Minotaur texts are struck in the book. Then it talks about whether the Minotaur myth used is even an apt anology regarding the events of the .

          what if? should be titled "who is the Minotaur?" Various posters say that it's MZD, it's us readers, it's Johnny, it's Zampano, it's the rest of the Record Brigade. It then describes the Minotaur mythos in a somewhat kindergarten language so that non-literature buffs like me can understand it.

          My new obsession has beginner theories on the Stray the Porn Star kills, Johnny as the Minotaur, Zampano as Minos, the cats and so on. Interesting to see how the same theories were being discussed on 2001 as well as they are now.

          Zampano and the Minotaur has more who is who, as in Zampano=Minotaur and more equal sign fun.

          The Knock is your usual half-evolved and Minotaur thread, except that it has a vague statement I haven't seen elsewhere:

          Originally posted by thppp
          I always assumed that the was the Minotaur.
          Non-Ground/Air Emergency code Footnotes lists various symbols which aren't Ground-Air Emergency codes but are used as footnote symbols in the book. It provides meanings of each symbol, then discusses symbology and Minotaur mythology.

          The Unsaid Coincidence? about the Minotaur.

          Idea, Observation and Recommendation begins with this: Minotaur=mentor. Then goes off on a tangent and dies.
          Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:38 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Science


            OF LEAVES and the FORTH DIMENSION speculates about the fourth dimension. No, not time. Or is it? And how does the fourth dimension--time or otherwise--apply to the ?

            Tesseract is a five dimensional space. The thread elaborates quite a bit.

            entropy and it's correlation with the begins by defining entropy, then elaborating the relation between it and the and then after a few more interesting posts, dies.

            Fire in Zero Gravity discusses fire and its behaviour; especially the fire Navidson creates to read the book by. And time travel, expectations, emotions and a lot of other things.

            Religion, Time Travel, and Implications of HOL has this:

            Originally posted by Ellimist
            Say time travel was feasible right now, assuming we had enough energy and technology for it to work. Say someone went back in time, maybe 3, 4 thousand years and replaced/introduced a significant religious text with... you guessed it, HOL. Based on what you think you know about the book, how would the next few thousand years come to pass? Or would they?
            by Zampano talks about tesseract, terminal velocity, quarters, and a lot of other interesting ideas from FallingQuarters before he resorts to quoting from the book, that is.

            terminal velocity for quarters talks about that. Fine thread.

            Black Boxes talks about black boxes in the book and black boxes in airplanes. And also about the actual color of black boxes.

            1/4" give or take an inch asks, Why is Navy obsessed with that extra 1/4" inch when the building plans include an error of one inch plus or minus? Then the thread talks about space.

            FRACTALS and OF LEAVES talks about fractals. No discussion.

            Echo vs. Reverberation points out the differences, and similarities.

            Synesthesia has discussion regarding this:

            Originally posted by 1exist
            Synesthesia is a condition where the nerves that are associated with senses appear to be tightly bundled. The result is that, in people with the condition, input from one sense triggers another sense.
            _________________


            Photography and Firearms
            (Grouped together because both use equipment to shoot.)


            Doubled Cameraman talks about Kevin Carter, Navidson and guilt.

            Kevin Carter & F*ck Buttons is about Kevin Carter. And buttons.

            Gavin Young talks about Young and Navidson.

            "Alexander Gardner's photograph of the Union dead" talks about the photograph, lists the differences between a photo (or image) and fiction, art, Art, image (or photo) as record as opposed to image (or photo) as Art, photography, image manipulation, communication, among other things in a really fine discussion.

            zapruder film? has many posters talking about photography, JFK, and (fatwoul, specifically) the relation between firearms and photography. It's not really related to the book... except that it is.

            Another thought begins by asking:

            Originally posted by Francis Glances
            Could it be that navidson had simply abused light and needed to be punished. Photography can be seen as a critique of light, I think.

            Zampano, deprived of light, may have felt compelled to heap the misery on someone who takes something so for granted.

            Make him appreciate every last spark.
            Then discusses photography.

            Delial talks about Delial, denial, and the photograph.

            Photographs talks about the polaroids Johnny takes.

            polaroids forms a grid with the polaroids, and comes up with some strange numbers, to say the least.

            lonely a look talks about specific instances of echoes in the book, and guns.

            RLB, in this post, provides information on US Military Ithaca Model 37 Shotguns.
            Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:39 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Colour
              (Includes discussion on that all-elusive blue .)


              color of is the thread to supply when asked, "Why is in blue"?

              The Obvious: why is in blue? And also minor discussion about of Blue Leaves.

              The and The Word talks about the Bible, and colors.

              The Word Blue notices various instances of the phrase "out of the blue" and purports that it has a symbolic significance in connection with why the word is in blue. No elaboration.

              The 'real' five and a half minute hallway suggests the real 6 minute hallway. It also brushes on writing as therapy, the first occurance of "out of the blue".

              Power blue? has readers saying that the color of the word gets progressively lighter in the book. Is it a printing flaw, they ask, or is it intentional?

              out of the blue. talks about instances of the phrase in the book, and its importance. No elaboration.

              Red and blue talks about the significance of red, blue and purple in various fields.

              No one has mentioned this... begins with a discussion about the scrap of paper on the front collage, and then talks about red, blue and purple.

              Poiple talks about the purple passage, and its location. And it's significance. Sort of.

              4 colors, 4 authors assigns a color to each central character. But the discussion is quite hard to follow with *o*'s deleted posts.

              Colour talks about the colors used in the book, and colors in general. Between some wandering, that is.

              What's with the colors? attempts to answer that question. Special focus, of course, on red and blue. And purple and grey. FallingQuarter's self-worded posts are here.
              _________________


              Animals


              Untold starts off by asking what happened to Zampano's cats, and then gives little bits and pieces about animals in the , Chaper VI, comfort, among other things.

              My new obsession has beginner theories on the Stray the Porn Star kills, Johnny as the Minotaur, Zampano as Minos, the cats and so on. Interesting to see how the same theories were being discussed on 2001 as well as they are now.

              ...navy's love letter to karen... is really about cats.

              Cats is about exactly that. Watch out for FallingQuarters's posts.

              theory on/of pets is just what it says.

              Quisling starts out by mentioning that quisling is a funny word, talks about the fate of the real Hillary and Mallory, moves on to the September 19, 1988 letter, among other things.

              dog begins by talking about the woman who throws the dog out of the window and then interprets that episode.

              HoL Bestiary: Pelicans talks about... Pelicans! If you want more Bestiary, though, and can read French, head to the French forum.

              HoL Bestiary: Rabbits talks about... Rabbits!

              animals talks about the animals in the book.
              Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:39 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Characters
                (Includes threads devoted to individual characters. For Pelafina check The Whalestoe Letters category.)


                gematria, johnny, and -12 uses an algorithm to come up with a numerical value for names and finds other terms which have the same value. The algorithm link is provided, although the link leads to a 404 Error.

                Who would play whom in the never-to-exist movie? talks about just that.

                Pronunciation of "Navidson"? does Navidson first, then does Zampano.

                Why does Zampano write TNR? Why does Johnny edit it? explores the possibilities.

                Johnny and His Crew (Lude et al), and Drugs

                What ever happened to Johnny???????? speculates just that. Never mind all those question marks in the title.

                Johnny and Latin catches one of Johnny's lies. Namely, that he can understand Latin unlike his statement.

                johnny/pelafina relationship asks us what exactly did Johnny feel for his mother? We know she loves him dearly, she professes her love in every letter, but what about Johnny? Does he love her?

                2crossovers talks about Johnny as a son, and as a walker in darkness. It references quotes from p. 320, p. 150 (walker in darkness) and p. 543, p. 592-593 (son), among a few others.

                needles talks about the needles Johnny mentions, and this:

                Originally posted by therm
                any tattooist who is worth his salt does not use 5's or 7's for anything other than a flash art piece. I know that Johhny likes to lie, but why would he lie about tattoo needles?
                young Johnny should deserve some more discussion. It has only two posts, and Johnny's childhood surely deserves more investigation.

                Johnny's women talks about why women flock to him, and also the various effects of drugs.

                Unnecessary sex parts questions the reason for the inclusion of Johnny's sexual escapades in the book.

                The Nail talks about a special nail, and Johnny's travels.

                J.T. and the band talks about a few ideas related to the band in Flagstaff and how it has a copy of the book.

                Is Johnny real? Speculation regarding the same.

                Mr. Truant asks, is Johnny divine? No real discussion.

                Johnny's Last Story speculates on Johnny's last story, ie, the Baby story.

                "These days, I'm an apprentice at a tattoo shop..." has this:

                Originally posted by prelinger
                Johnny says he's an apprentice at a tattoo shop, yet he makes mention to getting paid ("My boss handed me my last check...")... but tattoo apprentices don't get paid. At all. If anything, the apprentice pays the artist s/he is apprenticing under. Even tattoos given by the apprentice are free, not counting tips.

                Any thoughts on the signifigance (or lack thereof) of this?
                monkeys has this:

                Originally posted by DrGizmo
                I thought you liked puzzles... I know I do!

                I think Johnny Truant is deaf.

                (Not taking in any existential questions about any of the characters)
                Stuff that's bugging me is a thread well worth reading. It asks questions about Johnny's last name, a connection between Whalestoe and the , MZD's statement that Johnny's font (Courier) has a significance, the Director, and so on.

                Gdansk and Kyrie discusses Gdansk Man, Kyrie, Truant's untrustworthiness, the dead prostitute the paramedic mentions (as Johnny tells us) in the Introduction, time, time-travel, time-travel to a period when Zampano could see, and so on. John B. states that Introductions are not the first thing written in any book, so pagination isn't an accurate source of chronology.

                A Truant mistake? asks, how, after Johnny's electricity removed, can he have an answering machine record a message? Counterpoints to this question, questions regarding Gdansk Man's existence, Lude's existence abound.

                Is Lude real? talks about just that.

                Lude is Quaalude?: Quaalude is a tranquilizer.

                ecstacy is about drugs.

                Johnny and drugs: more drugs discussion.

                book in storage asks how can Navidson and the band in Arizona be reading a book called of Leaves. No further--you guessed it--elaboration.

                Clara English and the Single Mother talks about that, yes, but it should really be called: "How do you pronounce Pelafina?"

                Johnny's only tongue? talks about language, authors committing suicide before critical analysis of their books.


                Zampano

                Zampano's ------> French Foreign Legion makes the connection. Also talks about Kittinger and Redwood.

                hmmmmmm.... asks, how can Zampano write a book about a film he cannot even see? And a few other theories abound.

                Quick Qustion talks about the Z in Zampano, speculating if it's the initial in Mark Z. Danielewski's name. There is no elaboration.

                sevens and Hoss discusses the number seven--specifically the seven loves of Zampano.

                What promise??? asks this:

                Originally posted by shadows
                What do you guys think Zampano meant when he said that the son he created would fufill a promise that he could no longer keep?
                Then seeks to answer that question.

                zampano/marine-man raymond connection talks about that obscurely, then talks about this: Z. was the driver in Johnny's crash.

                Zampano is not blind speculates on that topic. It also brushes onto Johnny's last story--the dead baby. And DVDs.

                The Navidson Record as a Screenplay speculates if Zampano's book is a result of a failed movie script. It speculates if the book is just movie merchandise. Much in the same league as soft toys and video games which all big banner movies seem to spew out nowadays.

                random thought(s) has an interesting take on the book which isn't elaborated:

                Originally posted by Tempast33
                what if old man Z was having a hoax played on him, what if a group of college students got together and created a fake documentary and "read" to him all these sources that he quotes.
                Navidson and NR's Crew

                blind man bluffing has a board member unpacking the word "Navidson". Here's what he says:

                Originally posted by hitme
                Navidson: a male offspring that steers a ship through a sea of sight and sound.
                Delial talks about Delial, denial, and the photograph.

                Delial... begins with the girl Navidson shot, then talks about guilt and speculates whether TNR is real (in the boundaries of fiction).

                1/4" give or take an inch asks, Why is Navy obsessed with that extra 1/4" inch when the building plans include an error of one inch plus or minus? Then the thread talks about space.

                Daisy as Megan... talks about Navidson's kids, margins of darkness, dragons and monsters.

                Tom's jokes and where they come from is the topic of this thread.

                Tom's death discusses its implications. Meager elaboration.
                _________________


                Who's Who?
                (Discussion regarding identity and authorship.)


                all these author debates tells us that perhaps instead of trying to figure out who the real author of the book is, we should try and take it just as it is. That is, Johnny really found Zampano's manuscript. And then see what theories come up.

                LIE or interpretation? asks, just how many entities in the book are real? And how many entities are there in the first place?

                ...must pass for bourbon begins with noting instances where gingerale replaces something (bourbon), then discusses lines of defence regarding the different authors. The different fonts serve as lines of defence. Then it discusses what happens when those lines are breached or when they blur, false names as lines of defence, whim, the Index's unreliability, irony, irony and whim, among other things.

                Zampano vs Navidson has only one post stating an often repeated theory: Zampano is Navidson. Doesn't offer any realy concrete proof, though.

                Zampano=Navidson?? is devoid of any n00b bashing and is worthy for that alone.

                Crazy theory about Z/N has a different take on the old Zampano is Navidson theory.

                Another 'coincidence'. relates two occurances of a woman's wrist--first in Navidson's Final Interview (footnote 275), and the second in Zampano's poem (Love At First Sight).

                "prolix--your word--" begins with asking, Whose word is prolix? The reader's? Who, exactly, is "you"? Then talks about Johnny as a frat boy, and more who's who.

                Zampano and the Minotaur has more who is who, as in Zampano=Minotaur and more equal sign fun.

                Where do they come from, really? purports evidence supporting the theory that Johnny is actually Zampano, or vice-versa.

                zampano is johnny!!!'s title is pretty much self explanatory. No serious discussion.

                Zampano's true identity is Pelafina. Discussion regarding the same.

                who's who relates everyone in the book to everyone else. Chad could be Johnny, it says. So could Zampano. Ditto Navidson. And so on. Is perhaps the first thread where there is a little bit of elaboration instead of plain-Jane statements.

                Psychological Symbolism is one of the many threads postulating if Chad and Daisy are really Mark and Poe, and Will and Karen are symbols for the Danielewski Mom and Pop.

                Zampano is Chad: more who is who.

                P/Z/J conversation?? has various "evidence" suggesting that the book is a conversation between Pelafina, Zampano and Johnny. In the tradition of all HoL threads, though, it covers a lot more territory than just that one topic.

                Who is Ed? doesn't answer the question in a way I suppose we all want it answered. It only tells us that Ed. is short for Editors.

                "Livre. [sic]" talks mainly about the letter on p. 643 and errors. It also touches on the Bible, Pynchon, Editors, myth, Authorship, unbound text, the unresolvability of the book, this:

                Originally posted by Reader
                Something else that is of interest to consider while looking at this letter:
                "Dear Mr. ___________"
                and "please feel free to contact us directly at ____________."
                These lines are ways of editing as well as the Xs and [sic].

                SO, what we have here are 3 different ways of editing: the underline, the X, and the [sic]. And how many hands has this document passed through since its conception? Some possibilities include: someone(s) at the Whalestoe Institute, Johnny, the Editors . . .

                What I'm driving at here is nothing all that profound, but just a suggestion that each editing method could belong to one person; thus, this letter has been edited at least 3 times before it came to us, the reader.
                ash burns talks of ash, its properties and Navy as Johnny's landlord.

                a woman who will love my ironies is really about identity and specific scenarios in the book presented with different characters. No realy elaboration, sadly.

                Ribbons talks about two pink ribbons. Karen wears one, Pelafina writes about wearing the other.

                Pelafina+Karen ??? What else?

                My Theory: more who's who. With "evidence".

                Food for thought regarding who is who in the book.

                Persephone, Karen, Clara, Pelafina relation makes the relation.

                Authorship

                My Interpretation is another thread postulating that Pelafina is the book's author and the others are all figments of her imagination.

                Does Karen control the ? asks that, then asks if Karen controls the book. That is, is she the author?

                April 5th '86 Whalestoe letter talks about the phrase "My dear Zampano..." which appears in the letter, then moves on to discuss authorship.

                Karen as author: more authorship discussion.

                connection between pelafina and navidson record talks about Pelafina, Johnny and Zampano. And 5051.

                A link between Johnny, Zampano, and Pelfina provides the link.

                Now I open up my mind... has Twix (Kimba), one of the old-timer posters, say:

                Originally posted by Twix
                Johnny, in one of his footnotes (it was in the 100s, I think), talks about how he was trying to remember the tune to a song, and he says a very strange statement about something like, "Now I open up my mind and look at it another way" (maybe someone can find it using the index for me?) or something like that. VERY weirdly worded statement. Then, in Exp. #5, just before Navy sings "Daisy, Daisy," he is also trying to remember the tune, and says something ALMOST identical.
                just sorting out's first two posts have a few good ideas about Johnny's mysterious Seattle doctor, the first change in the , and this:

                Originally posted by catknap
                Johnny's mother dies on May 4th, and May 4th is the day on which Karen becomes convinced that Navy is still alive in the hallway (during his return visit to the ). In the story about the baby, the baby dies on the 4th day.
                Karen + Quesada + Molino = Questions. Just read the thread.

                name meanings provides a few different meanings and associations about the names in the book.

                Typo or significance? discusses "... before extion caught up with me".

                What's in a Name? picks at and discusses the names used in the book.
                Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:40 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Footnotes


                  Footnote 51 has vivster counting the number of instances of the word "Johnny" in Pelafina's "whirlwind" letter. The number is 51. He reads footnote 51, and suggests a possible discovery.

                  page 336, possibilities for kym pale has one post describing a few things about a footnote on p. 336, among other things.

                  Interesting footnote trick lists two examples of reverse words before disintegrating into another "this forum is full of disgruntled n00b bashers" topic.

                  The mystery behind the K talks about the infamous K footnote, trying to assemble all possible theories regarding the same. And Fellini.

                  K talks about the symbol K, and Ground-Air Emergency Codes.

                  Footnote "K" asks where exactly does the footnote symbol K lead to? ThomasJ explains where the footnote is; there is no mention of Ground-Air codes.

                  derrida and footnote 137 makes that connection.

                  Need Help from the Masters, amid some psuedo n00b bashing, talks about the footnote device employed in the book, and why footnotes are used at all.

                  You mean you went through every footnote more footnote oddness.

                  Endnotes asks why Chapter VI has endnotes instead of footnotes. The question remains mostly unanswered.

                  se(arch)e 123 is a FallingQuarters thread, but it has a lot of discussion regarding the Minotaur, footnotes, numbers, cutting humans, and so on.

                  ibid has the answer to what ibid means.

                  Eraser asks, Why is the film Eraser mentioned in one of the footnotes (footnote 190, p. 145)?

                  Intertextual Intercises and Footnotes examines the footnotes in the book in handsome detail.
                  _________________


                  Checkmark


                  My theory on page 97 has a fresh take on the checkmark.

                  check mark talks about it, and Morse Code. No real elaboration.

                  Yet Another Checkmark Issue talks about the checkmark.
                  Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:41 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Codes
                    (Codes deciphered so far. Morse code et al.)


                    Codes for Dummies - *SPOILERS GALORE* lists some of the deciphered codes.

                    New Member in Oklahoma, and a few tidbits... has a practical instruction:

                    Originally posted by Bacchus
                    Flip to page 289 and get yourself a high-lighter, or hi-lighter, depending on your product of choice. Of course, flip the book upside down... Now, highlight all text on the book. There'll be three horizontal lines, one vertical line, and one diagonal line. My book also has a lone period on the page. Highlight that as well, all alone. "Navidson is sinking . . stretching," as one line. "Or the stairway is" connecting with the vertical line." "expanding" connecting to the vertical line. Now look at the highlighted passage. Kind of looks like a... Well, you'll see.
                    Hexcode Aiff provides the answer to what the HEX code on the inside front cover of the hardback edition is. There is no elaboration.

                    The Whalestoe code talks about applying Pelafina's first-letter code to p. 615 and coming up with this decoded message: Zampano, who did you lose?

                    Encoded Message? is another thread asking about Pelafina's coded message which mentions Zampano.

                    April 5th '86 Whalestoe letter talks about the phrase "My dear Zampano..." which appears in the letter, then moves on to discuss authorship.

                    encoded appearance of thamyris n pg 387 talks about just that.

                    page 66 lists some of the deciphered messages found by applying Pelafina's code. And: HoL as a secular comedy.

                    P. decodes Pelafina's letter on p. 620-623. It doesn't decode the capital letters, though (A FACE IN THE...).

                    Burnt holes... has this speculation in relation with the various holes in Zampano's pages:

                    Originally posted by Scorpion
                    A simple code & key system for encoding messages can be created by cutting holes in card so that, when placed over the 'encoded' text, the holes reveal the hidden message (the card masking off the words that are not part of the message)...
                    Atrocious morse code? tries to make sense of the various dots and dashes, but doesn't come to any conclusive solution.

                    check mark talks about it, and Morse Code. No real elaboration.

                    Bacon's Cipher talks about a code. Not Morse.

                    5 2 6 ... 526...absolutely randow thing..but i had to say it says that has 5 letters, of has 2, leaves has 6. It conjures up all combinations of the numbers and looks up the corresponding page numbers.

                    Non-Ground/Air Emergency code Footnotes lists various symbols which aren't Ground-Air Emergency codes but are used as footnote symbols in the book. It provides meanings of each symbol, then discusses symbology and Minotaur mythology.

                    2341 speculates on the significance of those digits.
                    _________________


                    Typos/Word Play/Echoes
                    (Intentional? Unintentional? Who knows?)


                    'Always' and Hallways and Holloway is how this thread begins, but has an interesting post:

                    Originally posted by John B.
                    Add to that Stencil's line, "if you read from the beginning . . . ," which begs the question, Just where IS that beginning? What exactly IS the "first" text, the "beginning" text, in this compendium of texts? It's obvious, but it's significant: Johnny's Introduction is among the very LAST things written that we have (aside from the Editors' comments).
                    'color' vs. 'colour' asks the importance of the spelling difference in the book.

                    morning/mourning? compares the word morning in p. 31 with the word mourning in footnote 36. No elaboration.

                    XVIII: Life Among the Savages begins with Shirley Jackson's Life Among the Savages, then talks about the f for s writing, as in ftaires.

                    typo? lists typos.

                    pg. 438 - "on" mentions a typo and discusses it (well, not exactly).

                    The missing/misplaced "L" begins with the misplaced L on p. 379 in "...the name I gave to the girl in the photo that won me all the fame and gory...", then talks about other convenient typos in the book.

                    Weird blue x first makes mention of one blue X, then another, and then goes into a few typos (Ned instead of New Director), and an interesting take on why the word is raised or lowered in a line.

                    No Period, and Page 433 begins by mentioning the missing period on p. 386, then asks about a pattern on p. 433. More discussion regarding typos, misplaced items and [sic]s.

                    [sic] (sic) [sic] tries to list all instance of misspelled words followed by [sic].

                    [sic] talks about [sic] and Editors.

                    "shows/nothing more now talks about the last sentence in Chapter XVIII, then veers into a lot of different topics.

                    breaking into pisces. Only the first post talks about pisces, the others talk about MZD's influences, and just how deep should we really consider the book to be.

                    Pisces (2x) discusses the pisces/pieces slip up.

                    The appearance of the word notes the number of instances of the word in each section of the book. The total is 529. When you turn to p. 529, you get the beginning of the Exhibits, fatwoul states.

                    Gathering till its me. has one post where the poster lists almost all possible anagrams of the phrases " of leaves".

                    page 84 anagrams lists a few.

                    of Leaves tries to figure out what leaves means.

                    w[ ]at is with th[ ] m[ ]ssing letters p[ ]age? tries to fill in the gaps.

                    The dot on page 706 talks about it.

                    lonely a look talks about specific instances of echoes in the book, and guns.

                    Defenestration & DNE cites an echo and talks about it. Meager elaboration.

                    Typo or significance? discusses "... before extion caught up with me".

                    "me"? lists quite a few threads regarding "...before extion caught up with me"

                    pg 545 translates the Hindi passage found in the May 26, 1991 entry in the book.

                    "prolix--your word--" begins with asking, Whose word is prolix? The reader's? Who, exactly, is "you"? Then talks about Johnny as a frat boy, and more who's who.

                    things left out (intentionally) has one post stating a few things related to a that Mark could've quoted or used but didn't. The poster wonders if there's some meaning in what stuff Mark left out and why.
                    Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:41 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Appendices
                      (All Appendix related threads are here.)


                      the bald gnome Error... talks about it. And something else: the XXX in The PXXXXXXX Poems could be A-S-I-P-H-A-Ë.

                      Bits (appendix B) talks about the Bits, and also provides links.

                      No one has mentioned this... begins with a discussion about the scrap of paper on the front collage, and then talks about red, blue and purple.

                      Altering the Whole Thing begins with the Holloway Tape, then talks about the front collage.

                      Appendix C. ". . . and Pieces" elaborates on it.

                      Appendix II-C. Collages elaborates on the collages in handsome detail.

                      Man Looking In/Outward discusses the still from Exploration #4 printed in the book, and why it's placed in the section labeled Contrary Evidence.

                      Appendix III: Contrary Evidence? discusses that. Sort of.

                      Appendix III Again has an interesting first post on the Contrary Evidence.
                      _________________



                      The Pelican Poems


                      pelican poems tries to unpack them.

                      EATING MY OWN HANDS... talks about that dreaded Pelafina letter, and her other letters, the Pelican Poems, among a lot of rather bland posts about assorted folks trying to diss fatwoul.

                      September 19, 1988 - Hypertext Edition has as many words from that letter hypertexted as possible. It also features a different edition of the same letter: with color coded words corresponding to those present in the Pelican Poem "The Wednesday Which Pelican Mistook to be a Sunday and Caused Easle to Lose Her Cards" and locations in Paris. It also features an edition of the May 8 1987 letter with corresponding words from the September 19, 1988 letter as well. Much kudos for fearful_syzygy for the colour coding.
                      _________________


                      The Whalestoe Letters and Pelafina
                      (Discussion regarding Pelafina's letters and all things Whalestoe.)


                      September 19, 1988
                      P's pictures asks if Pelafina's letters--specifically September 19, 1998--are arranged to form pictures. The thread starter wonders if the Sep. 19 letter is a vase. ipsuedonamei wonders if that letter looks like a tornado (a typhoon? Typhon?)

                      EATING MY OWN HANDS... talks about that dreaded Pelafina letter, and her other letters, the Pelican Poems, among a lot of rather bland posts about assorted folks trying to diss fatwoul.

                      September 19, 1988 - Hypertext Edition has as many words from that letter hypertexted as possible. It also features a different edition of the same letter: with color coded words corresponding to those present in the Pelican Poem "The Wednesday Which Pelican Mistook to be a Sunday and Caused Easle to Lose Her Cards" and locations in Paris. It also features an edition of the May 8 1987 letter with corresponding words from the September 19, 1988 letter as well. Much kudos for fearful_syzygy for the colour coding.

                      no subject necessary talks about p. 633, linking various locations in France, saying that pinning them on a map leads to a somewhat incomplete circle. Someone (fatwoul) speculates if it could be a spiral.

                      pelafina's letters... p633 finds connections in the letters.

                      physical letters... 633... is about that dreaded letter. It suggests, among other things, that the shape of the letter represents and Atomic bomb going off.

                      Others Letters, Theories and Pelafina

                      September 19, 1988 = May 8, 1987? says that if you strip the September 19 letter of all the street addresses, you're left with a letter which pretty much resembles the May 8 letter.

                      pg.633 coded letter talks about that letter. Various ways to decipher it--all failed attempts.

                      And then I nailed my head to the floor begins with this:
                      Originally posted by euchrid
                      Zampano is the director of the Whalestoe
                      Then goes on to argue about the theory.

                      Love my ironies finds a hidden message on p. 117 using Pelafina's code. And then suggests a connection with another coded message on p. 615, the connection being that of question-answer. It brings up the question of dates.

                      "Livre. [sic]" talks mainly about the letter on p. 643 and errors. It also touches on the Bible, Pynchon, Editors, myth, Authorship, unbound text, the unresolvability of the book, this:
                      Originally posted by Reader
                      Something else that is of interest to consider while looking at this letter:
                      "Dear Mr. ___________"
                      and "please feel free to contact us directly at ____________."
                      These lines are ways of editing as well as the Xs and [sic].

                      SO, what we have here are 3 different ways of editing: the underline, the X, and the [sic]. And how many hands has this document passed through since its conception? Some possibilities include: someone(s) at the Whalestoe Institute, Johnny, the Editors . . .

                      What I'm driving at here is nothing all that profound, but just a suggestion that each editing method could belong to one person; thus, this letter has been edited at least 3 times before it came to us, the reader.
                      yet another question that will probably be easily answered.. tries to crack the numbers below the Whalestoe letter on p. 643 (#669-951381-6634646-94 #162-111231-1614161-23) by interpreting it in various ways, including linking it to Kabbalah.

                      What the fuck??? asks, what are the numbers on the bottom of p. 643?

                      Stuff that's bugging me is a thread well worth reading. It asks questions about Johnny's last name, a connection between Whalestoe and the , MZD's statement that Johnny's font (Courier) has a significance, the Director, and so on.

                      Pelafina's Font tries to figure that out.

                      Pelafina's age approximates exactly that.

                      Clara English and the Single Mother talks about that, yes, but it should really be called: "How do you pronounce Pelafina?"

                      Moon Phases and the Whalestoe Letters lists the Whalestoe letters with dates and corresponding moon phases--with pictures.
                      _________________


                      The Index
                      (DNE, and more fun.)


                      The Index brings up the question of DNE entries and their point. Also answers a question many readers ask: the Index says the word Minotaur appears on p. 4, however p. 4 does not have any Minotaur. What's up?

                      Index fun is about words in the index. Minotaur, DNE, and the like.

                      clues in the index has this little quote:
                      Originally posted by The_Illuminati999
                      It seems that most of the words listed in the index as DNE reflects something of Pelafina's life, be it something she fears, she can't have, or a reflection on her personality.
                      The Platonic Khora and HoL begins with that, then discusses the womb, the as a womb, the womb as a grave, whores and how they DNE in the Index (though both whore and prostitute do), the feminine void, "we fucked like rabbits", Bambi, a few other Disney cartoons, and so on.

                      ...DNE talks about the words that are mentioned as DNE in the Index. It also lists instances of the word that are not in blue.
                      Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:43 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Books and Literature
                        (Related to and resonating with of Leaves.)


                        Moby Dick
                        HoL and Moby-Dick reveals the links (or resonances) between the two books.

                        whale is the first thread to bring up the symbolic implications of the whale who swallowed Jonah in Moby Dick. Further elaboration is provided in other threads.

                        Who is Johnny, really? talks about Jonah.

                        Borges
                        Borges (The as the Hero) describes just that.

                        More Borges is exactly that.

                        Updike mentions that it is unusual to attribute a quote to the translator rather than the original author as Zampano does with Updike's translation of Borges.

                        important meditation (page 45)... hints at God, Milton, Ovid and Borges.

                        Derrida
                        derrida mentions why Derrida's work should be considered in the analysis of HoL. There's a link to an article in this thread. Check it out.

                        derrida and footnote 137 makes that connection.

                        I merely wanted Glas. That is all. is about Derrida.

                        Further Derrida Thoughts quotes passages from Derrida's work.

                        Derrida's The Post Card and HoL talks about both.

                        D structure talks about D structure, S structure, Deep structures, Derrida, Lacan and Ovid.

                        Shakespeare
                        How do you make a King Lear? begins by mentioning two instances of the word "Golster" in HoL; Golster is the name of a character in King Lear.

                        THE REAL AUTHOR doesn't really tackle authorship. It talks about the Tempest, among other things.

                        Others
                        Rilke influences...a Rilkean Vision in HoL? says pretty much what the title says.

                        connections to joyce has a misleading title, because what the posters actually do is point out differences between Joyce's books and HoL.

                        Madness talks of The Fall Of The Of Usher, then mentions two theories that have been recounted in this forum quite often: proceed the book thinking that it's one author's (Johnny's) creation, or proceed the book according to Stephen King's quote: a whale is also just a whale.

                        Insomnia (the book, not lack of sleep) uses one of the traits of insomnia in Stephen King's Insomnia to attempt to explain some of Johnny's paranoia.

                        Bill Lavender talks about Lavender's poem, which has strong connections with certain facets of the book. And ghosts.

                        A psuedo-Zizekian reading... talks about Zizek and Jacques Lacan, and how their theories might apply to the book.

                        Hofstadter and Bach's Little Harmonic Labyrinth talks about exactly that.

                        Wouldn't it be cool if... talks about the Neverending Story.

                        Neverending Story??? is about exactly that.

                        Is of Leaves a 'horror' novel? asks if the Horror genre categorization is appropriate. Or if the book can be categorized at all.

                        September 19th 1988 - The Lewis Carroll Connection... connects the two. Not a lot of discussion, though.

                        Alice in Wonderland -- a comprehensive comparison compares Carroll's book with Danielewski's. Some striking parallels arise.

                        XVIII: Life Among the Savages begins with Shirley Jackson's Life Among the Savages, then talks about the f for s writing, as in ftaires.

                        Coincidence... ? I think not. is about Sylvia Plath.

                        Jane Eyre--possible coincidence talks about it.

                        Blake talks about William Blake's work and correlations with the book. And the as inhuman or fallen. And a theory from Donald Ault's Narrative Unbound. And this:
                        Originally posted by MoleculaRR
                        ((((((((((((Jonah in the belly of the beast))))))))))))
                        The brackets represent layers.

                        "Lude" and "Hoss" are airforce callsigns talks about that, then talks about the Air Force and Huckleberry Finn.

                        Minotaurs, Marines and Albatrosses cites examples of textual layout from other books. It also talks about Coleridge's work. Very interesting.

                        New Topic? also talks about Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

                        Michael Ventris? Linear B? points out similarities between the book's characters and British linguist Michael Ventris' characters.

                        Jack London talks about his connections to the book.

                        Joseph Cornell -- homage? talks about Cornell's work, and how it has a resonance with HoL.

                        The Russian Connection makes the connection.

                        " and Universe" quotes passages from Gaston Bachelard's "The Poetics of Space". And discusses them as well as space.

                        Peter Pan only manages to begin discussing Peter Pan in relation to of Leaves.

                        Books Related to "Strange" s. Or books related to of Leaves.
                        _________________


                        Movies and TV
                        (Either mentioned in the book, or related to it.)


                        Cinematic techniques should be titled "A Book is not a Movie".

                        "Hopefully one day it'll happen discusses HoL: The Movie, will it ever be made, should it ever be made, and so on.

                        lacan has only one post telling us that HoL and David Lynch's Lost Highway are both materializations of Lacan's REAL. No elaboration or explanation provided.

                        Mulholland Drive starts to draw parallels between David Lynch's film and Danielewski's book, but never quite manages to get there.

                        Bill Meyer's film on flying saucers touches on that topic.

                        Wasteful Posting relates the book to the Cosby Show.

                        Las Meninas is a painting which John B. compares to HoL. Then the thread discusses field of vision, transparency, and a lot of other things fine arts.

                        Bambi in Da begins with Disney's Bambi, moves on to Pelafina's suicide and other things.

                        Source Material: Building a Library for (from) the tries to build a library of links (both forum threads as well as internet links) about books, music, games and miscellany related to of Leaves.
                        _________________


                        Music
                        (Including non-Poe music. Makes for pretty good listening too.)


                        What I think is one of the first threads talking about the relation between Mark's book and Poe's album, saying that perhaps a single thread of emotions binds both.

                        i still get nightmares ... talks about Poe's Haunted. In the song of Leaves, Poe says, "Brother, I still get nightmares." The thread discusses more of the same.

                        "Haunted"'s HoL passages's creator, DansRose explains the thread this way:
                        Originally posted by DanSRose
                        As of late, many have been discussing the pages and entries of of Leaves at the last page of the Poe's Haunted album booklet. Someone thought that we should list which track lines up to what in HoL and the Letters. So...
                        Any significance to the tune? talks about the tune on p. 479, which is Johnny Comes Marching Home. Lyrics are provided in the thread.

                        The Music on p. 479 talks about it.

                        Pearl Jam and of Leaves cites lyrics from Pearl Jam's songs.

                        This is not for you.. talks about that phrase, and Pearl Jam's "Not For You". This one suffers from *o*'s deleted posts.

                        Tom Waits and the of Leaves talks about a Tom Waits song: Where Nobody Lives.

                        Pink Floyd The Wall draws parallels and connections between the book and Pink Floyd's The Wall.

                        Hey, D.J!: Lyrics from (non-POE) songs in HoL talks about exactly that.

                        Source Material: Building a Library for (from) the tries to build a library of links (both forum threads as well as internet links) about books, music, games and miscellany related to of Leaves.
                        _________________


                        Games
                        (Horror games, mostly.)


                        HoL: The Game and The Movie. Should be the only thread anyone needs to read before posting a topic similar to WHERE'S THE NAVIDSON REPORT VIDEOTAPE?

                        Silent Hill and HOL relates the game and the book.

                        Silent Hill 4: The Room also relates the game and the book.

                        Game logic and Navidson/Holloway discusses game logic and applies it to the characters.
                        _________________


                        Source Material: Building a Library for (from) the tries to build a library of links (both forum threads as well as internet links) about books, music, games and miscellany related to of Leaves.
                        Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:43 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Articles
                          (Discussion on published articles on the book.)


                          High risk group... talks of an article which places us readers in a high risk group. Then relates it to the book.

                          Masocriticism cites some passages from Paul Mann's essay, Masocriticism.

                          'The Digital Topography of HoL', Hansen discusses Hansen's article.

                          Analysis by Luther Moss links to an article on the book.

                          Slocombe: Nihilism and the that Jacques Built discusses Will Slocombe's article on the book.
                          _________________


                          Criticism


                          ...first criticism talks about one after-effect of the book: it asks, does the book let us down?

                          Not Impressed by Johnny Truant begins with a user stating what the title says, then evolves into narrative failings, MZD, brief mentions of psuedo-intellectualism, movie rights, and so on.

                          Reason and the Ash Tree Lane events talks about the unresolved ending of the book and whether it is a fair thing.

                          F**k'em if they can't take a joke talks about critics, critics who critique critics, reasons pro and against why critics suck and... well, so on.

                          of Leaves - The epitome of postmodernism? begins with talking just that, then diverges on a small discussion about just how this forum affects our reading experience. Though that is never explicitly stated.

                          Love is at the center... asks if HoL is more romance than horror story.

                          a story lacking in morals starts by saying HoL has no morals, then negating that, then asking if having morals is neccessary, and then arguing each point.

                          mark is over rated: after the initial tirade of psuedo-hate, the thread discusses how the book fails and its shortcomings.
                          _________________


                          Printing and Editions


                          Red Edition talks about it for a very short time before wandering.

                          737 or 709 talks about the different language editions of the book.

                          printing, editions,etc. mentions the different printings and editions.

                          Comprehensive guide to printings/ISBN's etc. is comprehensive indeed.
                          Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:44 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Queries
                            (Specific questions.)


                            Are the letters in the book? answers that yes, the Whalestoe letters are in of Leaves, but are also available with a few additional letters in a seperate book, ie The Whalestoe Letters.

                            Movie? is one of the first threads discussing if a movie will ever be made on the book. The answer back in September 2001 was what it is now: probably not.

                            New book asks an often repeated question: is Mark going to write a sequel or follow up to HoL? The answer back in June 2001 was the same as it is now (ie, 2005): no idea. Except for a vague rumor about a book called That.
                            _________________


                            Miscellania
                            (For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else but doesn't fit in Out of the Way either.)


                            of Leaves Cookbook has recipes of the delicacies mentioned in the book.

                            HoL on the net asks where the First Edition (the online edition) of the book is. A poster called Johnny Truant says that there was indeed a first edition. It's not clear if he's kidding or serious.

                            Beautifully Crazy discusses the things Danielewski mentions in interviews and their significance (or lack of).

                            A few tidbits about the signing offers more than a few.

                            MZD's booksigning at San Diego State talks about a booksigning event.

                            some asked, MZD answered has videoclips of MZD in conference answering some questions.

                            MZD at loc.gov talks about MZD's psuedonyms

                            Sticker? What did you do with it asks about a sticker pasted inside the book. It's an anti-theft magnetic sticker employed by many bookstores; nothing else.

                            That way madness lies . . . (A of Leaves Concordance) has member John B. taking up the daunting task of attempting a concordance for the book.

                            Stupid Theory Time!!!! is perhaps the only useless thread that is not useless.
                            _________________


                            Forum Member Stuff
                            (Does not include n00b bashing, even though I was very tempted to include a few classic examples.)


                            a screenplay is one of the many threads claiming to start/make a screenplay based on the book. None of them have ever come true.

                            Effects/Nightmares has members posting effects and nightmares after reading the book.

                            09:55 AM should be sufficient proof for those who ask, "Does MZD ever visit the board?" Although whether you believe the proof provided in this thread depends on how paranoid you are. There's also: 02:07 PM.

                            Burning the Leaves talks about effects of burning the pages of the book. Quite literally.
                            Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:44 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Glossary


                              FallingQuarters: A board member, used to post in his own words once, but then changed and now only seems to quote from the book and nothing else.

                              *o*: also a board member, he was involved in a few interesting discussions and debates, both in the main forum as well as in Out of the Way, but after more than 2000 posts he declared he would no longer post, and then systematically edited each of his posts to erase all of his discussions. He is his own now. Read one of his posts to find out what that means (though I haven't a clue).

                              Endnotes


                              1. Thanks to fearful_syzygy, Stencil and Merouda for their suggestions and help.

                              2. Thanks to every board member who contributed something worthwhile to the board.

                              3. Thank you for sending me the book.

                              4. Many thanks to Ellimist for the updated links and getting this guide is back in business.

                              5. I'm sure there have been many pertinent discussions in the years after this guide was compiled. Please send me links to any threads you think should go in here.
                              Last edited by sutrix; 06-20-2009, 01:51 AM.

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