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  • Last Page: Yggdrasil?

    The last page has really been bugging me ever since I finished the book the first time.
    quote:
    Y g g
    d
    r
    a
    s
    i
    l

    What miracle is this? This giant tree.
    It stands ten thousand feet high
    But doesn't reach the ground. Still it stands.
    Its roots must hold the sky.

    O


    What the heck...?! I'm completely lost on what this means, if it means anything. Does it have anything to do with p. 623 in Appendix B (a.k.a. The Whalestoe Letters) when Johnny's mother writes in one of her letters:
    quote
    My hands resembles some ancient tree: the roots that bind up the earth, the rock and the ceaselessly nibbling wordms.
    And what does "Yggdrasil" mean? Can anyone help me figure this out? It's driving me completely up the wall [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

    [ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: Spanish_Doll ]

  • #2
    Last Page: Yggdrasil?

    For real spanish doll!!!! I've read it 3 times in 2 days and I still have no clue whatsoever what relevance this has to...anything. Somebody help us...(shivering)

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    • #3
      Last Page: Yggdrasil?

      Yggdrasil is the tree that combines all 3 worlds in (I believe it's) Norse mythology. Coincidentally it's a tree made of ash... Ash Tree Lane... anyway as for the mother reference that's very possible that there's an allusion there somewhere... a lot of posts have been made suggesting the tree to have something to do with femininity, birth, the uterus, etc... do some searching around the site or on yahoo (at least before other people post information w/links [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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      • #4
        Last Page: Yggdrasil?

        This post originated on the dallas based bbs at the link at the bottom of the page it is by Lisalove and covers most of what you might be wanting to know...

        taken from the book"the woman's dictionary of symbols and sacred objects"
        I knew that the ash tree was considerd sacred to the godess BUT youll like this heres the meaning of the symbolism of An ash tree

        "ASH
        Yggdrasil, the world of ash tree Norse myth ,had three huge roots.One root stretched to the underground spiring of URD(earth) , where the Norns live in thier cave and prepetually decied the fates of human beings.Urd was the name of the eldest norn.The Norns were the nortehrn version of the Fortunae or Moerae who were also called Melaie,"ash-tree nymphs" by the greks.
        The second root of thw world ash tree reached to the well of Mimir in the land of the frost giants .This well was the source of all wisdom.Odin sacraficed one of his eyes for a drink from its enlightning waters.In Cornwall he was remeberd as Odin the Wanderer or the Troll of Tolcarne,whom one could summon by holding Leaves of ash,oak and thorn,while pronouncing a secret phrase that could only be taught by a woman to a man, or by a man to a woman as in the witches circle of alternating sexes.
        The third root of teh world ash tree went to Niflheum, the underworld presided over by the goddess Hel. To enter teh underworld and learn its feminine secrets , such as the magic of the runes,Odin hung nine nights on the tree as a sacrafice to his won godhead.In the druidic tree alphabet the ash was Nor nion ,meaning knowledge.
        the roots of Yggdrsil produced a ,agic f;uid called aurr, never precisley defined, but most probably the same life giving female lunar blood that lies secretly at the root of all universal-elixer myths.The tree was also the universal mother "source of un born souls" like the tree of life found in nearly all Asiatic myths.One story said that the first man, Askr was created from the ash tree:hence his name.The latin name of this tree is Fraxinus"firelight" though this may have meant the light of knowledge , ash was a traditonal wood for the ule log."

        So i think that that s pretty cool esp all the reference in the book to the being "vaginal" with its black ness and how the Men have the need to explore it...the lack of communication between karen and Navidson and so on i think you can get what i mean.

        nullKDGE of Leaves/Poe BBS

        [ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: mzdquestions ]

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        • #5
          Last Page: Yggdrasil?

          so since there i s a strong connection with female symbolizism and Ash Tree, the represent karen, delail, daisy, and Johnny mother... and since men (at first) only entered the - thier journey was about women ?? And note how the creased to exist after Karen saves Navy.

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          • #6
            Last Page: Yggdrasil?

            The similarity here of how Wotan (Odin) of Norse Mythos placed himself on this great tree to gain knowledge, and is thereafter sometimes referred to as the "Gallows God", not to mention that he loses his left eye in exchange for wisdom, much like Navidson.

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            • #7
              Last Page: Yggdrasil?

              very interesting.

              not to mention the quote about how the home truely belongs to the woman and that men are forever guests...

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              • #8
                Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                Thank you all for enlightening me on thsi subject. This is what sites like this are for. At first I thought that Mark only wanted to add more 'blackness' to the shades in the book. I read an interview with him where he explains that, like Orson Wells in Citizen Kane, he put 'blackness' in parts of the book to make it more spooky. Well did this in his film; he put very black objects for instance in the curtains, because he thought they appeared to grey on celluloid. Since I read Mark explaining this, I tend to believe that a lot of the things that I don't understand are 'just a little more black'. How arrogant of me....

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                • #9
                  Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                  Actually, seeing as how the was originally on Oak Tree Lane in the original drafts, and Yggdrasil was added at the very end... possibly MZD truly was just adding more blackness to the ....

                  For more info, check out http://ofleaves.4t.com/guide.html

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                  • #10
                    Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                    there is a reference on page 357 that links the to women as the darkness is (it claims) an incarnation of the womb.

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                    • #11
                      Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                      Ok- I see all the stuff about Nordic myth. But what's the significance of the WAY its written? And the two opposing 'O' shapes at the top and bottom of the page.

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                      • #12
                        Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                        Um... it sort of looks like a tree? I dunno. Ygg is the leaves, and drasil is the trunk, and the little poem at the bottom is the roots; Heaven, Earth, and Hell? Maybe the O at the bottom is the river that sustains the tree. Also, the mythology says that at the Ragnarok, everything will be destroyed, but the tree will remain to start life anew. I think. Notice how the seems to be older than the universe itself? Maybe the universe is constantly being destroyed and rebuilt, and all that remains is the . Oh, and another thing... in Flagstaff, Johnny sleeps under an Ash tree. Just something to think about.

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                        • #13
                          Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                          Keep in mind that the mythic Yggdrasil had worlds in its trunk, branches and its roots. The roots were reserved for lower planes (hels and what-not). The maze part of the lies underground where the foundation (roots of a ) should lie. If the norse mythology were to be believed, Yggdrasil would be the orginal " of leaves." (interesting, compare characters in book with Norse myth, Holloway=Thor etc?)

                          Within the roots of the mythic Yggdrasil lies a serpent (who's name escapes me), gnawing at the roots, driving venom into the tree and trying to destory the world. Much like the darkness, coldness, silence and roars of the maze drive men mad.

                          One last thing, Odin (the father-Creator-Zeus figure of the Norsemen) traded pain for knowledge on at least two occasions. For one of these he hung on Yggdrasil for 7 days and nights. This suffering parrells that of the characters in the book. (See also, the Hanged Man in Tarot and death of Jesus (hanging from a tree))

                          Another quick note, since Mark puts one line of 3 letters on the last page, it may mean something. YGG=Egg? Egg is vaginal, also, "the Egg that hatches worlds."

                          New to the board, curious if anyone has exaimined book from a Qabbalistic point of view.

                          -Rev. Jesse

                          [ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Rev. Jesse ]

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                          • #14
                            Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                            quote:
                            Originally posted by sen:
                            The norns are three demi godesses of destiny who control the destinies of both gods and men. The three norns are Urd, Verdandi (necessity), and Skuld (being). There are three powerful woman characters in this book, Pelafina who helps shape Johnny's life, and perhaps Zampano's, Delial who is integral to Navy's life, and Karen, also integral to Navy's life, along with Chad and Tom.


                            I like this idea! The idea of P. controlling, in some way, the fates of Johnny and Z., certainly makes her more of a prominent figure in the overall story. Question though: What does Urd mean?

                            The Norse connection is also detailed http://www.ofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000889

                            and
                            http://www.ofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000863

                            and
                            http://www.ofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000810

                            and
                            http://www.ofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000451

                            The thread of vision as a price of wisdom as it relates to Z. is interesting to me.

                            Similarly, it could be argued that Oedipus paid the price for his heedless pursuit of knowledge with his vision -- he sought the truth despite several warnings to desist. Could this tie in to Navy's decision to return to the , despite all the reasons not to?

                            Sorry this is not more focused. Too much wine last night, too much coffee this morning.

                            L.

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                            • #15
                              Last Page: Yggdrasil?

                              So we have fate, necessity and being.

                              Could P. be fate? Johnny's descent into maddness, fated to him by his mother.

                              Karen, necessity? Protecting the family by getting the kids out of the ?

                              Delial as being? The thing that drives/defintes Navy? (Perhaps haunts is a better word).

                              Any thoughts?
                              L.

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