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  • Symbolism of the House's shifts

    Does anyone think that the shifts in the hous that get everyone lost could have something to do, symbolically, with peoples' ability to cope? Think about it this way. The in the book is supposed to be the "hope" for the Navidson's future. But, everyone knows that it's hard to move forward when you haven't dealt with the past (dealing with the past was the entire idea of the "Haunted" and HOL). The Navidson's had their fair share of unresolved issues. What if the s shifts are a manifestation of those internal problems? It's just a thought for now, and I still have to check out the reactions that everyone had to the 's interior envirinment. If anyone else has already checked on this, let me know.

  • #2
    Symbolism of the 's shifts

    i agree with your idea, when i first read the book and talked about it, i felt the itself was (rather the dark parts) were a manifestation of what the people in it were thinking... in other words, could it be the was reacting to these peoples' desires and fears... in navidson's case, as he quested further, the further the quest went... or you could argue, he was the emptiest of all the characters and needed the longest journey.... just guesses.

    demo

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    • #3
      Symbolism of the 's shifts

      To expand on what Demo has said... i feel not only is the a manafestation of fear and past, but i also feel this is why the word is in blue... like someone said in another forum ( i think Demo) said that in film blue is used to over lay a background... i think that the word in blue means that the is what ever it wants to be... what ever you make it to be... your/it's own personal death-trap playground...

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      • #4
        Symbolism of the 's shifts

        I think the is like a mirror. Only it shows the sides of you that you are not really willing to see. But if you stare it back in the face and or willing to cope with it, you can not only survive but you can also defeat it. Navidson goes through the ordeal and comes out alive. Not only that; the dissolves after Navidson is finished. The simple message of the book could be: don't be afraid of the dark... But maybe I'm wrong

        Joep Trommelen (Holland)

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        • #5
          Symbolism of the 's shifts

          Elsewhere on the board people have suggested that the may be sentient. If this is possible, is it also possible that the reflects the explorers' mindsets out of love?. It tries to protect Jed, Reston et al when Holloway attacks them, and Holloway and Navidson only die ("consumed by the " is a better way to put it I guess) when they have the wish to do so. In fact (according to my memory) the only tries to kill the family when they try to escape. "Is it possible to love something so much, you imagine it wants to destroy you only because it has denied you?". And if that were true, wouldn't you try to destroy the loved object before it destroyed you? Maybe I'm just tired.
          Also, has anyone noticed a similarity between the way the "sort of dissolves" at the end and the way in which the Navidson Record seems to have lost its effectiveness in the last two chapters (causing the story to dissolve away)?

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          • #6
            Symbolism of the 's shifts

            But does the save the four in that room? One's already dead before the doors start closing.

            The doors closing. When does that start?

            I'm working from memory here, so I may be about to slip up massively here, but don't the doors start to shut after Navidson calls Tom? What if Tom's desire to save his brother is translated into the actions of the , somehow? Sometimes I think of the labyrith as some sort of big playroom, reflecting what the inhabitants want. But, as with all children, when two or three are gathered together, they all want to play with the toy, and fights break out. . .

            Ah, only blathering . . .

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            • #7
              Symbolism of the 's shifts

              There's actually a hell of a lot of posts on this topic.You should read the fire in zero G thread. I think it elaborated on the " as representation of occupants mental status" theory pretty well.

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              • #8
                Symbolism of the 's shifts

                Damn, I knew that idea was too good to be mine. I actually read the Zero G thread ages ago, then forgot about it. Thanks for pointing that out.

                However, what I was trying (and now I read back, failing) to do was try and suggest that there is some sort of primacy to who gets to have their psyche reflected by the labyrinth. Holloway, due to his iron grip on the Exploration 4 team, gets the minotaur he's looking for. The others are scared of the place, but not Holloway, he's scared of his beast. Tom, who is able to hold back the heaviness of that place with his shadow puppets, is able to impose (in some way) his will on the , by saving his Will. And of course Navidson, by virtue of going in alone, and with no fear, gets what he wants.

                Actually, does he? What does he want?
                My head hurts.
                I think I'm going to read the Zero G thread again.

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                • #9
                  Symbolism of the 's shifts

                  quote:
                  Originally posted by Stencil:
                  .

                  The doors closing. When does that start?

                  .



                  I agree with you there. There has been a lot of discussion about the being an emotional mirror. I often thought that the closing doors were the result of one of the team members wishes to be from the incoming bullets. Another fun/ related question to ask is when/ why does the staircase begin to expand?

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                  • #10
                    Symbolism of the 's shifts

                    The question of the staircase is very important ian, and also harder to answer than the doors.

                    Whereas you could say either one of the people being shot at 'closed' the doors, or that Tom did it (my own favourite), how and why the staircase expanded is difficult. As I remember it, Tom, Wax and Jed were at the top (in the Great Hall), Reston was being pulled up, Holloway was lost and Navidson was at the bottom of the stairs. So if, as we think, the reflects the expectations of one (or more) of its inhabitants, which one wanted the staircase to expand?

                    Perhaps Tom, who was always scared by that place, wanted to get as far away as possible, and inadvertently made the staircase expand. That would make his drinking not only an act of grief, but also of guilt. However, if that were true, the would shorten the upper level, not the lower. I can't see Reston having and effect for the same reason, nor Wax. Jed was already dead, so I'll leave him out.

                    That leaves Holloway and Navidson. If Holloway was still alive, then one could argue it was him trying to stop Navidson escaping. That seems alright, but there's no evidence he was there (that's another good question - where did Holloway go?) and persumably he'd try to stop the whole team leaving, not just Navidson.

                    I think it was actually Navidson who made the Staircase expand. While on the surface, he, like the rest of the team wanted out of there, deep down he didn't want it to end. Perhaps, as I've argued in the Zero G thread, he still wanted to keep his distance from Karen, was actually still running away. On the other hand, perhaps he'd twigged that Karen was intending to leave as soon as he got back, and so didn't want to face that.

                    Also interesting about the 'falling quarter' section, is that the end (just after the quarter hits the floor beside Navidson) apparently 'references' Yggdrsil (i.e. the big black dot), and Zampano and Truant's working out of the distance that coin fell is either inaccurate or incomplete, which ties in with the theme of 'inexact accuracy' explored by so-called 'John B.' in the "Exactly" thread.

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                    • #11
                      Symbolism of the 's shifts

                      woah, oh my god, first of all we are actualy talking about HOL [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
                      b while you all seem to be discussing the fact that the seemed to expand and contract as at moments the people indide desired it to, i agree with whoever mentioned that it was subconcious and that it was dealing with their inner selfs mostly. especialy navidson and karen. he wants to explor the in the first place, he gets all that he wanted and then some, when he is on the very edge he is done, karen who has been terefied of this thing from the get go is no longer worried, and neither prepares nor leaves a marker for a way back she does not want to explore like the others, she want one thing in specific, and she finds navidson almost instantly and then they get the hell out of there.
                      havent any of you heard about curosity and the cat?
                      well long story short, it wasnt fried pork i was eating, but damn tasty anyways, here kitty kitty kitty....

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                      • #12
                        Symbolism of the 's shifts

                        quote:
                        Originally posted by drone:
                        Elsewhere on the board people have suggested that the may be sentient.


                        I like this. It's one of my favorite theories. Think of the caring for the people so much, wanting to protect them, but inadvertently hurting them sometimes because it doesn't understand human limitations. It's so different and separate from human experience that it does things it thinks are helpful, but aren't. Yeah.

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                        • #13
                          Symbolism of the 's shifts

                          quote:
                          Originally posted by Stencil:
                          The question of the staircase is very important ian, and also harder to answer than the doors.

                          Whereas you could say either one of the people being shot at 'closed' the doors, or that Tom did it (my own favourite), how and why the staircase expanded is difficult. As I remember it, Tom, Wax and Jed were at the top (in the Great Hall), Reston was being pulled up, Holloway was lost and Navidson was at the bottom of the stairs. So if, as we think, the reflects the expectations of one (or more) of its inhabitants, which one wanted the staircase to expand?

                          Perhaps Tom, who was always scared by that place, wanted to get as far away as possible, and inadvertently made the staircase expand. That would make his drinking not only an act of grief, but also of guilt. However, if that were true, the would shorten the upper level, not the lower. I can't see Reston having and effect for the same reason, nor Wax. Jed was already dead, so I'll leave him out.

                          That leaves Holloway and Navidson. If Holloway was still alive, then one could argue it was him trying to stop Navidson escaping. That seems alright, but there's no evidence he was there (that's another good question - where did Holloway go?) and persumably he'd try to stop the whole team leaving, not just Navidson.

                          I think it was actually Navidson who made the Staircase expand. While on the surface, he, like the rest of the team wanted out of there, deep down he didn't want it to end. Perhaps, as I've argued in the Zero G thread, he still wanted to keep his distance from Karen, was actually still running away. On the other hand, perhaps he'd twigged that Karen was intending to leave as soon as he got back, and so didn't want to face that.

                          Also interesting about the 'falling quarter' section, is that the end (just after the quarter hits the floor beside Navidson) apparently 'references' Yggdrsil (i.e. the big black dot), and Zampano and Truant's working out of the distance that coin fell is either inaccurate or incomplete, which ties in with the theme of 'inexact accuracy' explored by so-called 'John B.' in the "Exactly" thread.



                          Yes, stencil, that's exactly where I was going, but I also agree that alot of the 's "actions" are the results of the inhabitants subconcious. I'm still undecided on the staircase, but I love your arguements.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Symbolism of the 's shifts

                            quote:
                            Originally posted by silver474:


                            I like this. It's one of my favorite theories. Think of the caring for the people so much, wanting to protect them, but inadvertently hurting them sometimes because it doesn't understand human limitations. It's so different and separate from human experience that it does things it thinks are helpful, but aren't. Yeah.



                            I don't know how I feel about this. I don't think that the itself has any emotions of its own, only the emotions of those who are inhabiting it at the time. And that runs the gamut, all the way from love, to hate, to fear. When it's emtpy, it's harmless. But when it's not, it not nly feeds off the emotions of the inhabitants, but exaggrates them, for itself, and also for the people who have these emotions. This is just what I think, though.

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