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  • Food for thought

    I'm very new here and just finished reading the book last night. I'm very confused and I could use some help. Here is what I took from the book.

    At first I speculated that Old man Z and Tom were the same person, but if that were true, then wouldn't have there been mention of Z having no hands and whatnot? Tom's hands were stripped of their flesh when the swallowed him, correct? Or was that just an illusion of the ?
    It seems plausable that Pelafina and Daisy could be the same person, but it just doesn't make sense. Johnny goes in search of Pelafina's ghost at Whalestoe. In his narrative, he describes the place as being surrounded by an 8 foot high fence. The fence has No Tresspassing signs everywhere. On page 550 we see a page from the book that never made it into the book, where it states that Karen still ownes the , but she had an 8 foot fence built around it with No Tresspassing signs on it. This could just be coincidence.
    I'm afraid I've confused myself and lost my point. Anyone have any insight that might help me out? [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

    [ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Xiria ]

  • #2
    Food for thought

    YOu get a diamond for discovering the best hallway of the day.

    This sems to tie Karen and Pelfina even stronger. It is Karen who smiles and also Pelfina. Perhaps the was Karen/Pelfina's mad? And these letters are her description of the insident, her recording in opposition to Navidson's. I'm going off now to compare dates in the letters to dates in the Navidson record.

    ManiKatt

    Comment


    • #3
      Food for thought

      here's a idea for you... it ws just introduced to me a few days ago... there is some speculation that Pelafina actually wrote the entire book, old man Z and all. i'm relizing that the story of the baby might actually be Johnny, and while P. was in the Whalestoe she created the life of her dear dead child. Pg 628 read the capital letters in an X form "DEAR DEAD" ok, read the letter from Ms. P on Pg 609... ok, turn to page 97... uh huh.... more? Pg 615, 2nd paragraph, starting at "destroyed" take the first letter of each word untill the word "evil?" also in one of the letters she mentions a spanish doll... Daisy happens to have a spanish doll. there are lots of codes hidden in Z's story too.
      Pg 64 take the first letter of each photographer's last name. there are many things, i'm finding new ones everyday. good luck, hope i help some. if you have any questions feel free to e-mail me Velcrowmistress@aol.com

      liz

      Comment


      • #4
        Food for thought

        Wow, its going to take me some time to look through all of that. Unfortunatly, my husband has my copy of HOL with him at work at the moment. I'm going nuts waiting for him to get home so I can look it all up.

        Something else I've been thinking about:
        I did some research on Borges, he went blind during his lifetime from head trauma. It kinda makes you think that MZD fashioned old man Z after him. Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought.
        Another thing: Old man Z's was completey dark. If I recall, the walls were dark, or black, the windows were covered, and there were no lights. Kinda like the hallways and such in the . If he really is Tom, or anyone else that was in the , maybe they got so used to being trapped in the darkness, that they felt as if they needed their home to be completely void of light to feel secure. I'm losing it I think. lol
        Question: Why in the world did Z keep books in his refridgerator?? I couldn't figure that out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Food for thought

          hhhm, books in the fridge.... beats me... P. was crazy after all. btw, since you don't have the book with you, i'll translate the codes for you Pg 615 "Destroyed Endless Arrangements Re. Zealous Accomodations, Medical Prescriptions, & (And)Needless Other Wonders, However Obvious--Debilitating In Deed; You Ought Understand-- Letting Occur Such Evil?" OR "DEAR ZAMPANO, WHO DID YOU LOSE?" Pg 609 she talks of sending out the letter through one of the attendants "For all you have to do is place in your next letter a check mark in the lower right hand corner." on Pg 97 there is a check mark- in the lower right hand corner. what else did i cover? oh, yes, Pg 64 the first letter in the last name "A LONG LIST" i'm sure i missed something, but you get the idea.

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          • #6
            Food for thought

            Ok ok, I'm confused. Are you saying that P wrote the book, including the Johnny parts? I can't figure out what you mean. The bit about the the letters is interesting though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Food for thought

              This all seems to me, in my imbibed state, to imply that P wrote it all (a great and very easily, perhaps TOO easily supported theory), that Johnny is her lost son (perhaps not dead, but "lost"), Zampano is Navy or Tom or both (hence the age...has anyone added their ages together? Z could be a manifestation of the two...) and P is Karen, a concept I have supported wholeheartedly.

              Thoughts? Anyone?

              Comment


              • #8
                Food for thought

                I don't think P could be Karen. The age difference is too much I think. But, if P does in fact =Karen, then that would mean that Johnny is Chad? And if johnny is Chad then don't you think that he would remember where he lived? Johnny searched for the for ages, it wouldn't make sense if he was Chad. Usually no one forgets where they lived, excpet for when they only lived there when they were a baby and then moved away. But Chad was old enough to be able to remember. Therefore, I don't think P=Karen. Just my thoughts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Food for thought

                  Well, I've spent some time thinking about this. The Zampano reference in the Whalestoe Letters is rather interesting. Zampano had seven women who's names he would occasionally say when he was under emotional duress (Interesting side note: Beatrice is the name of Dante's guide through paradise). All of the names have a french origin.

                  Now, I could find no record of the name Pelafina, so I can only assume that it is a name created by MZD. However, "Fina" is a name. Short for "Seraphina", it is a latin name that means "fiery ones". "Pela" is french, the past tense conjugation of the word that means "to peel".

                  A loose connection at best.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Food for thought

                    I also attempted to find the origin of Pelafina. I came up empty handed as well. The best I could do was a distorted translation of "fine peeled" or something of the sort. I was hoping it would make a reference to flowers, hence Daisy, but no luck.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Food for thought

                      Let me start out that I love the P=author, Johnny=dead at birth theory--it was one of the first few I'd read when I got here, and it was just... too cool for words. What can I say, I love twisted stuff like that?


                      ________________SPOILER ALERT--LOTS OF QUOTES FROM BOOK AND VARIOUS THEORIES, ETC. NOT TO BE SEEN BY THOSE WHO HAVEN'T YET READ ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE BOOK AND/OR WISH TO FIGURE OUT THE AUTHORSHIP THEMSELVES_______________
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                      I'll add more darkness to these halls of discussion by quoting some parts of The Whalestoe Letters, a supplementary volume to HoL that has some extra letters in it:

                      First, a couple of thoughts from the guy who worked at the Whalestoe and found these extra P letters:

                      "Regrettably, however, Pelafina's lucidity did not necessarily coincide with my visits. Frequently, she could not even acknowledge my presence with so much as a blink. Though she wasn't there were times when she looked absolutely blind. Blind to the moment, to me, to the director, even to the walls. Her pupils suddenly blue to the whole world." (Italics, underline, color mine for emphasis)

                      "...her immense longing for the son I would never have the good forture to meet, or for that matter ever locate.." (Italics mine)

                      "...somehow she managed to make you feel as if she had invented you..." (Ditto)

                      P. letter, June 24, 1984, referring to wanting to make a birthday gift for Johnny:

                      "By some early light, I'll concoct the right tale, perfect the telling, something worthwhile and grand to be delivered later, much later, more than likely in the years to come, into your gentle little hands.
                      Maybe I'll even make you stand on your tippy toes to get it. Of course you won't have to if you don't want to. Eventually you won't need to stand on your tippy toes. You'll have grown to grasp it. Which is when you'll need me most anyway."

                      P. letter, November 6, 1984, regarding her "terrible thought":

                      "It stays. Woe upon woe. Not enough room fo rit all and yet there is room. It makes rooms. Rooms upon rooms upon hundreds of rooms full of indistinguishable remains." (Italics mine)

                      November 9, 1985

                      "I read you now as I write you, upon the instant, upon the word and its thought, as if they too truly might and could be one. Mine & yours." (Italics mine. I admit that "as I write you" could mean "as I write TO you," but the strange wording made me wonder whether it has a double meaning...)

                      As a note... on the "Zampano, who did you lose?" thing: If you look, it actually starts at "..many years destroyed..." etc, so it reads "My dear Zampano, who did you lose?" Adds a lot more sentiment to the statement, methinks.

                      September 18, 1986:

                      "Devoted beyond death, Mom." (You know the deal with the italics)

                      January 6, 1987:

                      "A mother craves her boy. Without her he is ash." (Ditto. I.E., without her JT no longer exists.. hmmmmm... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

                      January 11, 1988:

                      Reads "Dear Dead" or "Dead Daed" Johnny. I like the first better, but someone else did bring up the second, and I concede if you read from bottom left-to top right, it reads Daed, which s/he (don't remember) thought was a reference to Daedulus, who got lost in his own labyrinth, and I admit it could be that. I like my way better though. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                      March 19, 1988:

                      "...how can you ever understand the awful weight of living..."

                      [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Whew. I think that's enough for now.

                      Kimba

                      [Edit-- I was so hungry from skipping lunch I messed up a sentence. Fixeded now. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ]

                      [ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Kimba ]

                      [ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Kimba ]

                      [ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Kimba ]

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                      • #12
                        Food for thought

                        Pelafina is also an anagram of 'final ape,' and no doubt something in Latin, just to be clever. Does this mean anything ?

                        Has MZD been locked up yet ? When are the men with the big net coming for me ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Food for thought

                          Check out my old post "Whats in a Name", you may have to go back past 45 days, several members poster their research of the names. [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Food for thought

                            There is some thought that Johnny DID die. that the story of the dieing baby, and the mother who stayed awake for 3 days was really Johnny and P. and that when Johnny died, she went insane. While in the Whalestoe created this entire life for her lost child, including finding "Zampano" (who exsistes only in P's mind) which explanes how "Johnny" knew so much about "Lude's" list anmd what happened to all the girls. there is also alot of things in "Zampano's" book that coinsides with the letters to Johnny. in one letter P. talks of a spanish doll. Daisy has a spanish doll. pg. 624 "I live at the end of an interminable corridor"
                            also on pg. 599 "i put pink ribbons in my hair" when Kren and Navidson escape from the a niehbor is quoted as seeing Karen holding Navy in the front yard, a pink ribbon in her hair. and "DEAR DEAD" kinda says it all, right?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Food for thought

                              Hey everyone,
                              Here's a thought...could the name Pelafina be a combination for Pelican and Dolphin?

                              Just a thought... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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