View Full Version : Typo or significance?
01-22-2002, 09:51 PM
Page 320...firts full paragraph, third sentance. Here it is from the beginning though... "Regrettably, Tom fails to stop at a sip. A few hours later he has finished off the whole fifth as well as half a bottle of wine. He might have spent all night drinking had exhaustion not caught up with me." He might have spent all night drinking had exhaustion not caught up with ME. Who is Me? Zampano? Johnny? MZD? The sentance makes no sence if it is Tom. Is this an insight that there may have been more detail added here as to what Tom did that night while drinking if (again, Z, JT, MZD) weren't too tired to write about it? Or is it a typo? I don't think Typo is the way to go. The rest of the book is so precise that it doesn't seem like this would have been passed over. Given the fact that so many other aspects of HoL shine with ambiguity, I think it is safe to presume that this has some indication that someone other than Tom is indeed speaking here, and because of it we are missing out on a bit of the story. Who is tired and out of it. Well, i suppose you could argueably state that every character is in some way exhausted...This sentance is killing me. Is the house exhausted from all the shifting and manipulating? I just don't know. Thought I'd throw it out there for you all to chew on. Lemme know. Thanks.
01-22-2002, 11:18 PM
read the next half page. it's obviously will speaking.
01-22-2002, 11:44 PM
This sentence has baffled all who have read it. There are many more posts regarding it. Heh!
01-23-2002, 06:20 AM
Azrael, first and foremost, there is nothing obvious within HoL. Secondly, I do not think there is any possible way it is Navy speaking. He is not the narrator of the Navidson Record, as we are told, it is Zampano. As we imply, it is P or JT. Thanks for your imput, but I just don't see how that is possible. and if Will is not the one writing it, it doesn't even make sense that he would be saying He might have spent all night drinking had exhaustion not caught up with me. maybe if the line were more to the tune of He might have spent all night drinking had I not stopped him, or something, but the exhaustion part only seems to fit if the writer is the one who is exhausted, and I dont' see how it could be Navy. Also, at this time, Navy is 54,545 miles down the staircase. Just my thoughts...
01-23-2002, 07:16 AM
I always thought about that too.. "he might have spent all night drinking had exhaustion not cought up with ME. I always just thought that maybe... the author of the book might have gone into MORE detail and showed Tom drinking more, but Exhaustion had cought up with him and he was too tired to put anything else in, so he just left it like that.MAYBE???
01-23-2002, 08:04 AM
I've always thought of it as an indication of the fabrication of the Navidson Record by its author (whether it be Z, JT, or P...choose your favorite theory).
To me, it implies that the author is living this story a bit too much, and would have had Tom drinking much more, if (s)he had not become too tired to elaborate.
I, myself, don't totally subscribe to this interpretation, but I'd thought I'd throw it out there.
****whoa. sorry to sound like I'm repeating...looks like we're all posting at pretty much the same time. Heh!
[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: ThomasJ ]
01-23-2002, 08:04 AM
Kressa, I agree. But then it begs the question, Which author? Oh the circles we think in for this book. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
01-23-2002, 04:41 PM
well shit. you got me. i degress, navy was two spans of the circumfrence of the earth (or there about) below the great hall, and the top of the staircase, but for the sake of argument (and saving my ball sack) let's pretend that it WAS navy. it'd make sense, wouldn't it? I mean, is anyone really even in the house? it's my theory that the house doesn't even exist. z makes several references to schizophrenia in the book, myself citing those, why couldn't it be a figment of their psyches? all characters from the navidson record have different emotional and mental problems, be it karen with her various infidelities and sexual flings, or will with delia, holloway (do i even have to say?) to even chad, uprooted from his life in new york only to be pushed around in school.
i've lost interest
01-24-2002, 06:49 PM
personally i believe this is all a reflection of johnny (the "writer" of the entire book) loosing track of where his life begins and the books life begins ie when he is writing about tom drinking himself silly he is actually writing about how he binged on alcohol
01-24-2002, 07:14 PM
Old man Z is Tom. Ok. After the house ate Tom what happened to him... Well, maybe he found a way out huh? another place another time. becomes old man Z. I mean, if Navy only lost an eye from seeing the soul of the house, wouldn't it be said that someone who was there long enough would go blind...
08-23-2002, 08:05 AM
I'll accept the theory that Zampano could possibly be Tom. So Tom survives, escapes the house and makes his way to LA, blind and crazy, the house could do that to a person. (1) However, if we accept this as having happened, how would Tom/Zampano know how the rest of the events turned out?
Well I have two theories on that, staying with the theme of Tom as Zampano. The first is out there, much like the book. Perhaps Tom becomes one with the house for a while, actually a part of it. In this capacity he would be able to see everything thats going on.
The second theory is that once the Navidson Record was completed, Tom/Zampano managed to get a hold of it and "view" it, one way or another.
Ofcourse in order for this theory to be true the whole timeline of the book would have to be shifted backwards, to account for something. Shit, I lost my train of thought, I'll get back to you on that. Meanwhile, any ideas?
(1) see list of members to this board
08-23-2002, 09:58 AM
I don't know, I really like the idea of this just being something else Johnny changed without telling us. I think he's done that in the book more than we have realized. "Water heater," yeah, he told us about that one, but as he spirals down into insanity, I'm sure that he made a number of changes that make the story fit more into his life and experiences, as "water heater' did.
Well, that was a run-on sentence.
08-23-2002, 10:27 AM
08-23-2002, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the suggestion fatwoul, I actually read that one and two other threads besides the one I chose to tack onto, in the end though I had to choose one, and that one most closely expressed the idea which I wanted to expand on.
I see the point made about johnny spiraling downward, therefore changes are made within the book which reflect his level of confusion, I just like the idea that the house could actually swallow a person in the way that they might become a part of it for a while. It might explain why it almost seems alive in its actions. You have to admit the house plays coy at first, only showing a little, then opening up more and more the more the house and Navy get to know each other. Its like a courtship, a dance, a grand romance. Sometimes we try to kill the ones we love.
11-14-2002, 03:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zerolous:
I'll accept the theory that Zampano could possibly be Tom.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Old Man => T O M
Back to a 'what's in a name' argumentation, there is also this Gelsomina character in La Strada (cf. all the threads relating to Fellini in the HOL), which sounds very Pelafina-like, doesn't it?
Moreover, The Fool character gives Gelsamina his necklace => the gold necklace given by Pelafina to Johnny.
Many possible conclusions from here:
Z = Tom and he was in love with Pelafina = Karen, thus providing all this guilt/love relationships bewteen the two brothers and the lover, althoug in La Strada, Z. kills the Fool...
02-28-2005, 08:48 AM
If Zampano = Tom, how do you explain the difference in age? Zampano is 80 something when he writes The Navidson Record, and Tom is 48 when he gets "eaten" by the House.
Is this experience enough to age a person 30 years?
It's interesting to think about how this would affect the story... Tom would obviously have a different sort of slant than an observer in an academic context. Is there evidence of this in Zampano's writings? It might explain the deletions, especially of the Minotaur... if he had been face to face with the creature, he would probably find those memories pretty painful to recount.
Which leads me to wonder what sort of effect the House has on memory...
02-28-2005, 03:07 PM
I think this Tom = Z thing to be VERY interesting.... Something I haven't thought of before... Hmmmm. I must look into this!
02-28-2005, 07:07 PM
Also, if ZampanÚ really is Tom what would you make of all of this (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2235)?
03-01-2005, 05:11 AM
Thanks for the link, elmago. I hadn't read that thread before...
Given that information, I take back the implication that Z. might be Tom. There's now way that Tom could have been in the French Foreign Legion, nor could the house have provided this sort of history for Z., no matter what effect it has on memory. Not only is it more plausible that Z. was in the French Foreign Legion than a character in his own story, but there is much more evidence behind this theory than the one discussed here that Z. is Tom.
03-01-2005, 05:31 AM
Besides, surely ZampanÚ is all the characters (or at least all the male characters) in TNR to a greater or lesser extent, right?
03-02-2005, 12:26 AM
As always, fearful always nails the point.
Has it been discussed before if ZampanÚ actually created 'The Navidson Record'? I mean, if he created the idea of the film in his mind or it was suggested somewhere else by a different author. I tried a few search keywords but found nothing relating to it. Perhaps fearful can remeber something.
For example, the page of Magoo-Zine could hint at the fact that the idea behind TNR, not necesarily a film but maybe a comic, a play or a novel, could exist somewhere outside of ZampanÚ's writings.
03-02-2005, 12:47 AM
Has it been discussed before if ZampanÚ actually created 'The Navidson Record'?
There was this short thread (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=789) ages ago, but otherwise your best bet is John B.'s Why (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3353) thread. I don't think anyone's come up with anything conclusive (ha! as if), so feel free to explore the possibilities.
Incidentally, for MagooZine et al I would have a look at the thread on Appendix III (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=610), if you haven't already.
10-05-2006, 02:15 PM
I think you are all being way too litteral with this whole Z=Tom thing.
Quite often, writers write themselves into characters with different names and different ages. Different situations and outcomes.
It's a way of stepping outside one's self to make accepting the situation easier which, if the house is a symbol for depression, it would make sense for Z to do.
The fact that Tom got swallowed and died in the story only really means that Z gave up hope. That he was eaten by the house (ie: his sadness) and wasn't even going to try to get out.
Of course, there's a little of him in every character.
But in the NR, Z had the ability to see what happened after Tom died because the world goes on without him. And just because Z gave up and let himself be consumed in blue doesn't mean that he can't still observe.
A chicken running around with it's head cut off... Z still had enough juice to keep living in the real world for a while before his time was up.
Therefore, I think yes, this is a brilliant theory.
Don't quote me on it however, I tend to expand on these things with time.
ramble ramble blah blah ;)
10-11-2006, 09:32 AM
Has anyone noticed that Navidson reads HOL while he is lost in the Labrynth, using his last flares and matches to read, even going so far as to burn the pages he has already read. Perhaps signifying that his obsession, along with J. and Z. is all consuming. Considering the amount of trouble he goes to bring it with him and to get enough light to read by.
10-11-2006, 01:05 PM
Go look at the appendixes at the back of the book, one of the pages shows you that paragraph as Johnny saw it. Amazingly House of Leaves is not the book Navy was reading he was reading _________________.
(No page numbers for you)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.11 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.